Holy Plot Holes, Batman! 9 Logical Gripes With The Dark Knight Rises
So, The Dark Knight Rises happened. But as much as Christopher Nolan's Batman finale tied the themes of the entire trilogy together with emotion and weight, capping what began in Batman Begins and continued in The Dark Knight with a full-circle completion of Bruce Wayne's journey as a hero and symbol of hope in Gotham City and the world, well, there were just a dozen too many plot holes and contrivances along the way to ignore. Or were there? Let's dive right into spoiler territory and navigate the WTF-iest of TDKR's more perplexing leaps of logic, shall we?
SPOILERS FOLLOW, OBVIOUSLY.
Bane's Overly Complicated 5-Month Plan
Let's start with the dastardly terrorist plot that sets TDKR in motion. Bane teams with slimy exec guy Daggett, who hires Selina Kyle to steal Bruce Wayne's fingerprints to make some fraudulent deals (via very public hostage-taking assault on the stock exchange) in order to force Wayne Enterprises into Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul's hands, so they can bankrupt the billionaire superhero whose identity they already know and then manipulate him into giving them the technology that can be fashioned into a nuclear bomb. *Gasps for breath* Then Bane destroys Gotham with a few neat set pieces (the football stadium explosion and the simultaneous bridge attack are superb, I'll admit) thereby cutting Gotham City off from the rest of the world, unleashing the prison population into the streets, and imposing chaos on the citizenry... but only for about 5 months, until his bomb will nuke the city anyway — conveniently enough, the perfect amount of time to leech hope from the people of Gotham AND allow Bruce to recover from a broken back, climb out of the pit, trek across the globe with no ID and no money and no smart phone, sneak back into Gotham City, and save the day!
Bruce Wayne and Miranda Tate's Out of Nowhere Hookup
If The Notebook taught us anything, it's that two attractive people caught in the rain will get to boinking sooner or later. That's just what happens. So of course Bruce, who's been grieving the loss of his beloved Rachel for 8 years, will fall into sexytime with the pretty board member who he's never so much as locked eyes with until like two days ago, let alone had any meaningful chemistry with. IT'S SEX RAIN. GET OVER IT. There must be missing footage on the cutting room floor that sets up Bruce and Miranda's chemistry better, and maybe even shows us a bit of the action, so to speak. There must. Why would Gotham's preeminent costumed detective superhero let down his guard enough to leave a strange lady sleeping in their fireside bed, alone in his house of secrets, where the push of a button on a desk opens the door to the Bat-cave? Especially since she herself has mysterious scars and secrets of her own?
Probable answer: The back-on-the-saddle hubris that led Batman to ruin the cops' pursuit of Bane in his first return to crimefighting also makes him underestimate Talia. Bedding her is a step forward in his return to life and becoming a whole man once again after nursing his broken heart (and likely being a celibate creepy old mansion hermit). And maybe he spent a few hours offscreen in his Bat-cave Googling Miranda and doing an extensive background check on her before going there, only the League of Shadows has really, really good hackers and fake identity engineers on their payroll, in addition to prison doctors and Mongolian-chic wardrobe stylists.
Terrible Hand-to-Hand Fight Action That Makes No Damn Sense
Bane's a hulking, physically superior adversary who can kill people with his finger and batters Batman (admittedly, an over-the-hill, hasn't hit the gym in 8 years Batman) around like a rag doll — which explains why their first fight in the sewers is so awkwardly one-sided. But once Batman recovers from his broken back, does a few prison push-ups, and then suits up after focusing his anger into his workout regimen for months... their fist fights look pretty much the same. There's a shot on the City Hall steps where Batman leaps ahead of Bane, then turns to face him like a kid on a playground that made me groan. In no way does Batman seem to have learned from his past failures against Bane; he doesn't employ strategy or gadgetry to defeat his stronger nemesis. When Bane grabs a shotgun, of all things, to finish the Caped Crusader, it's Catwoman who offs Bane with a blast from the Batpod. And then we forget Bane was even in this movie for the rest of the film. Sigh.
Side note: It's worth acknowledging that the entirety of TDKR's final act is constructed so that the people around Batman must step up individually to help save Gotham. The fact that Batman can't do it all by himself, and can't even defeat Bane alone, reinforces the theme. Maybe he's getting too old for this shit after all. Still, it's not very satisfying when the individual parts don't make total sense on their own, is it?
Batman's Superhuman Time Management
Before zooming off in the Bat with nuclear bomb in tow, and shortly after returning to the city after five months in the middle of nowhere prison with about a day to save the world, Batman somehow manages to put all of his legal affairs in order, leaves the pearl necklace for Selina (heh) and detailed instructions to Blake in a duffel bag at his lawyer's office, sets a gasoline fire on the bridge in the shape of the Bat, saves Gordon in the nick of time, saves Blake in the nick of time, and fixes the Bat-symbol. I don't know how he does it! Literally.
Best explanation: He's Batman. Enough said?
Bruce/Batman's Coincidental Death
Are you telling me that nobody notices that Batman "dies" in a blaze of glory the same day that Gotham's most famous billionaire playboy also dies, leaving his estate to a bunch of orphans and willing his duffel bag of spelunking gear to some junior cop? Which brings me to...
Bruce and Selina's European Vacation
I don't believe that A) Emo Alfred would sit there on his fancy-sad vacay, see Bruce at the next table, alive and well, and not go give him a huge weepy hug, or B) a presumed dead billionaire playboy like Bruce Wayne can just go brunching in the open in France or whatever Florence and not be recognized. I kinda dig the idea that with nothing left in the Wayne coffers Bruce and Selina have retired to the French Riviera Italy to live off of her burgling money.
Possible answer: This is just Alfred's fantasy version of what he's always wished to see, and Batman/Bruce Wayne is really dead, and Chris Nolan has Incepted us all over again.
Selina's Special Friend, Wink Wink
Presuming Selina Kyle has a more than friendly relationship with Juno Temple's minx-in-training is a stretch, though they certainly seem to be BFFs/roommates/collaborators, ladies from the wrong side of the tracks trying to hustle their way up the food chain. That said: What's up with that one hug? You know what I'm talking about. Temple pretty much disappears once the movie gets going, but maybe she has additional scenes that flesh out their relationship that didn't make the edit. Discuss.
Possible answer that I hope isn't the case: Selina is bisexual and uses her sensuality as a tool against male marks... until she falls for Bruce/Batman and runs away with him to live happily ever after, leaving her girlfriend behind in Gotham. Ten bucks says this comes into play in the eventual TDKR XXX porn parody.
Good luck, Robin!
The good news: You've got a cave full of fancy toys and extra Bat-suits. The bad news: There's no money left to finance the operation. At least you know where the Bat is parked, on top of some building under some camo tarp. No one else will find it there, obviously.
Probable answer: Blake will take up the Batman cowl and figure out his own way of doing things, thus launching an entirely new Bat-series which I'll totally watch because Joseph Gordon-Levitt was the best thing about TDKR.
Room For The Justice League?
So WB wants to carve out a superhero super-team up, a la The Avengers, around DC's Justice League. Fair enough. But if folks like Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Superman exist in the same universe, where the hell are they during Batman's five-month absence from Gotham City? If the Justice League is possible in this film world — and maybe it's not, since Nolan's said to be done with his Batman storytelling, and despite his involvement in Man of Steel perhaps the two franchises aren't designed to co-exist just yet — then you have to think some other superhero out there would have swooped by to prevent the total destruction of one of America's biggest metropolitan populations, especially given that even the U.S. government has been rendered useless, leaving the entire city in the hands of a madman.
Does it really matter? Either any potential Justice League spin-off will not connect to the TDKR world, or it'll conveniently take place after the events of TDKR. This will likely be explained away or disregarded if/when the Justice League movie moves forward.
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Phew. All that said, TDKR was visually breathtaking and thematically resonant. Plus, it was Batman! At least there were no codpieces or Schumacherisms to complain about. So there will inevitably be two kinds of people: Those who can't help but be irked by the plot holes riddled throughout TDKR, and those who don't care and love it anyway. Where do you stand? Was this the movie Bat-fans deserved, or the one they needed?
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Comments
Dear Jen, dear commenters - I TOTALLY agree with this plotholes-overview, and the ones mentioned are only the tip of the iceberg. This story was just ridiculous. But not funnily so. It was contrived and dumb in so many ways that it jolted me right out of the movie-watching pleasure many times. And figure this: Here in Vienna, Austria, most theaters did the premiere of TDKR as a tripple-feature! Which means - yes, be jealous! - all three Nolan-Batmans back to back. I watched it with about 150 people who were interested in the original version (English, no German synch), and it was altogether a blast. The downside was, though, that just because we saw the two first Batman-movies too, the third did stick out like a sore thumb. Of course the first two have many weaknesses - especially the overwrought "Joker" who was able to pull off things that are so impossible, that not even in a trance one would wince - but compared to them, the third was just loud and violent and loud and violent once one made it out of the plotholes. However, Christian Bale proved to me again, that he is a wonderful actor, and Joseph-G too. Please, dear filmmakers, never let me see Ann Hathaway's chickenchest together with her scrawny neckline again, and NEVER ever replace Maggie Gyllenhaal for Katie Holmes. Altogether - WAY over to top, TDKR, to the point, that it wasn't even guilty pleasure anymore. Plus - I had read the plotline on "moviespoilers", but had I not, I am sure I'd have missed a lot of content. Forgot to mention: No Batman-trilogy without Gary Oldman - he was great. Michael Caine was just him, bless his heart.
Thanks for reporting from Vienna, Jo. Sounds like a fantastic way to see TDKR - as the tail end of the triple feature watched straight in a row - and yet I can imagine how glaring those plot holes and problems seemed in juxtaposition with BB/TDK.
Apologies for my typos in my previous post, but my computer kept freezing, and I didn't get to correct before sending off.
Yes this post is very true. Horribly disappointing film, the more I think about it the less I like it. I guess Nolan and co got stuck with the third movie shakes and just had to go make a typical comic book movie. It almost felt like watching one of the films from the previous series. Like an above commenter I also rewatched The Dark Knight just before going to see the new movie, which did TDKR no favours at all.
Too much CG as well, that was what was so great about the first two movies as so many comic book films depend on CG but it always looks dreadfully fake. It's like filmmakers don't know this or something, or audiences pretend not to notice. Ah well, this is what happens when you sit through four years of previews, bound to end up disappointed
I had to laugh when I read this, as it had the identical plot-holes in it, that I have been ranting about all day to friends on FB. The biggest travesty however was the ending. I hate Steven Spielberg type ends that make a big emotional sacrifice hollow.
When Spock died in TWOK everyone was gutted, the world was never the same. But when you see The Search for Spock, it made the sacrifice hollow. Why not have the balls to say Bats had died. Why not leave Bats as a paralysed cripple with Blake taking over mid way in the film? So many missed opportunities!
I agree Blake rocked,
There's MANY more plot holes, but I totally agree. Nolen f'ed this one up big time. He let the fans and material down. One of the major plot holes; apparantly Roland Dagget was a tool and let his construction workers work on Bane's projects all over town. He also had no idea, that the workers were mixing explosives into the concrete on all of those projects. Ok. I guess that bar a few workers (being employed by Dagget and not being faithful Bane followers) they also just "mixed" explosive concrete? And what kind of concrete is explosive yet solid as concrete anyway?
That just really destroyed any chance I had of letting myself "roll with it"... I got annoyed about much of what you write, but one other thing that really ticked me off; ricocheting bullets are vaporized in many movies. If you don't hit with a direct shot the projectile is just gone. Ok. But in TDKR Robin uses ricocheting off of the concrete truck to kill one of the baddies. So we "know" this happens. Later however when multiple warning shots are fired at the same Robin right into the bridge just in front of him not even a thread of his clothes is affected when in fact he would be bleeding to death from major entry holes from ricocheting bullets.
What REALLY gets to me though is the whole; THEY KNEW he was Batman anyway as you pointed out.
Nolan glamour is no more in my mind... Buhuuuuu...
Thanks for your blog!
Justification of the ending (assuming it isn't a fantasy) relies on the audience crying "Oh no! Not Batman! Batman can't be dead!" first, or something of that nature. It would rely on emotional engagement with the story but, yet again, Nolan shoots and misses; given his terminally clinical approach, it would make a lot more sense for Batman to be dead.
I could justify the Batman and Bruce Wayne disappearing at the same time and not raising any questions plot hole. Bruce Wayne was captured by Bane's mercs and brought to where they were keeping all of the members of the upper crust, but then Selina Kyle comes in and says Bane wants Wayne and Fox to himself, and she takes them out. She then sets them free, but people would assume they were taken off and killed, so that explains what happened to Bruce if anyone bothered to ask. Of course that would raise the question "why wasn't Fox also killed then?"
Also, I've always thought that if people couldn't figure out that Batman was Bruce Wayne by the simple fact that he's pretty much the only guy in Gotham with the resources, worldly knowledge, and ridiculous level of combat training to be the Caped Crusader, then that's a pretty big plot hole in and of itself. So if you look at it like that, his whole secret identity is a plot hole. It's almost as obvious as Clark Kent being Superman, but people in Metropolis are fooled by a pair of glasses and a nerdy facade.
Lots of plot holes in TDKR, as you've pointed out, and I'd have to say it was the least structured installment of the trilogy, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't entertained. I liked Hardy's take on Bane too, but Batman should definitely have employed strategy and tactic to defeat him, not just straight up try and kick his ass again, because that worked so well the first time.
I don't agree with many of the plot holes and believe you are nitpicking the entire movie to criticize it. If we have learned anything from the past two Batman films is that Bruce Wayne has accomplices in many places.
1. A very answer to how Bruce Wayne gets back to Gotham so quick is that he knows Korean smugglers using planes. There are thousands of phone booths in 3rd world countries.
2. Regarding how Bruce Wayne dedicates his time. We can believe that before his back was broken, between the period of meeting John Blake, Bruce Wayne saw a lot of potential in John and saw that all those homeless kids reminded him of himself. Except those kids don't have homes or a butler. So Bruce creates his will before fighting Bane. And, Bruce knows that he might not be able to fight Bane, but Bruce sees that Bane is not in the talking mood and can't be talked down. "You're making a serious mistake," Batman says to Selina Kyle. This doesn't have to mean that Selina made the mistake of betraying Bruce, but maybe the mistake of not helping Bruce defeat Bane. Bruce knows that he cannot defeat Bane alone, but he is arrogant and still tries too.
3. John Blake will never be Robin. His first name is Robin, why will he use his name to become a superhero. Anyone with an average brain will be able to discover who Robin really is. And, again, John doesn't have a butler or even a costume. John will become the new Batman since Batman is a symbol and can be anyone, not just Bruce. At the end the Bat Symbol fog light is replaced. It is replaced with a Bat Symbol, not a Robin symbol. Silly people.
4. Bruce Wayne and Batman did not die at the same time. Just because Bruce Wayne is famous, doesn't mean everyone will know when he returns to Gotham or even when he dies. IF Donald Trumph was in New York City and New York City turned into terrorist hell, I won't be thinking about Donald Trumph. Tons of people died right before, and during Batman's return to Gotham in the ending sequence. Shit happens. No body cares about the rich guy at the end of the day.
5. About Bruce and Miranda's hook up. Miranda is there for Bruce. Everyone in Bruce's life has left him by now. Miranda is there for him and he is feeling down. And, again, Bruce knows what he is doing that night (going to confront Bane, a killing machine), so why not have sex. Why not enjoy something before you go scour Gotham's underground looking for a guy who might end your reign.
That's all. I agree and disagree with others, but those 5 were the major ones.
Korean smugglers and phone booths??? Really? That's what Nolan figured I'd fill that blank with? REALLY??
Ladies and gentlemen, we have our answers!
so you agree with the rest of the answers then since thats the only one that you really saw a flaw with enough to point out?
How will Robin John Blake become the new Batman without the necessary cash flow? Being Batman ain't cheap.
in batman begins "of course we will have to order in bulk as to not raise suspicion. How many? 10000" Im sure the batcave is filled with plenty of spares
Hand to hand combat is just your opinion. I personally loved it, but to each it own.
Batman's Superhuman Time Management: Like some of these, this isnt a plothole. You just failed to pay attention. Bruce Wayne arrived in Gotham around 3 weeks before the bomb would go off. This gives him plenty of time to prepare and show the people of Gotham that their hero is stilll there.
Good luck, Robin!: After all that happened, I'm pretty sure Lucius found a way to get Wayne his money back considering how Bane was the one who took if from him.
Joe Kickass pretty much explains Bruce/Batman's Coincidental Death.
Room for Justice League? I'm not even gonna...
I agree with the one of Bruce and Miranda's random hookup, but as for Bane's plan, I don't seem to find anything wrong with it. He had 8 years to plan it so I'm sure he wouldn't go for anything too simple.
I think you should rename this post, because most of these "issues" are anything BUT logical.
Wow. You are the EXACT kind of audience member Nolan expects. You pay HIM and then you do the work he was too lazy to do!
You are wrong about the escape from the "Pit" plot hole. You must of forgot there was a tv in the cell which told Bruce there was a day left to get back. Right before he smashed it. Next Nolan-excuse?
Looks like Nolan is also putting his lazy stamp on Man of Steel. Look forward to plot holes-a-plenty and more Lex Luthor and Kryptonite. Hope I'm wrong, but 5 Superman movies and Lex Luther in all of them. Please not another. The last one had so much promise. Absolutely no reason Luther had to be the villian in that. They had the perfect opportunity to go a different direction and blew it. Now, with a reboot, it's almost a forgone conclusion.
are you serious? The bruce wayne/batman coincidence? Most of these plot holes are debatable, but that one is literally retarded. EVERYONE KNOWS BATMAN WAS BRUCE WAYNE AT THE END. Gordon tells everyone. Thats why he asks, he wants people to remember who their hero was. No one overlooks it, because everyone fucking knows. ARGH
Just so you know, while there are many holes in the plot, alfred not being suprised by the fact bruce is alive isnt one of them. When the will is being read out it is stated that the pearls are missing, this is because selina has them and is with bruce. at the beginning of the movie we discover the pearls are a tracking device. bruce travelled with Selina to florence and alfred followed the signal so that he could see bruce for himself. Thats why he isnt suprised, because he had a hunch and simply came to florence to make sure.
To Ollie - great observation! I never thought of that and saw the movie twice.
yeah i saw it twice and only picked up on it the 2nd time right at the end ahaha
The Bat Signal is repaired not by Batman... but by the Citizens of Gotham... Why would Batman fix it... If everyone presumes him dead...!!!
Plus if he wants to save the City... He can't do it all by Himself.... So saving Blake, Gordon and others were Important.... The Gasoline lit Bat fire... was to give People Hope... His Legal Issues were not fixed by him.... But by these same people whom he saved in the Nick of time...
Bruce Wayne walking in the open.... is not Big Deal.. you want him to live in a cave again...??? Thats a Small Cafe in Florence where Bruce might not be as Famous.... I don't think anyone of you knows Billionaires from other Countries (except a few)....!!!
In the Second Combat between Batman and Bane... The Fight is won because of Batman breaking Bane's Pain Relieving Mask.... not that he beats the Shit out of Bane....
Bruce Wayne is Presumed Dead during the Mess created by Bane which lasted for Months as Bane was Targeting Rich and Powerful People....!!!
Miranda and Bruce's Hook Up... is after Alfred leaves Bruce and Bruce is in Terrible need for Support... While Miranda wants Bruce to trust her... So She is ready for this Affair.... In Comics too... Bruce and Talia al Ghul have an Affair.... They have a Child too....
Yes there are certain really small points which defies Logic.... But for that Matter... Every Movie has such moments.... and if Nolan went after correcting these points.... The Movie might have been Hampered
The Dark Knight Rises has Lived up to the Expectations of the People... which is an Achievement by Itself.... and If you see... in most of the Trilogies... The third Part has always been a Let down and not as Good as the First two Parts....!!!
Meh, just glad Nolan's run is over. His lazy story telling was was never more evident than in these last two Batman movies. Nolan should be sending all you fans royalty checks for filling in all the story he was too lazy to tell. I am not nitpicking on the guy. He really does leave some HUGE plot holes in his stories. I guess I am just a type of viewer that wants to really know how Joker was able to pull of just ONE of the stunts he pulled off in Dark Knight or how Bruce made it back from the pit in less than 24 hours with absolutely no resources or no one to call in Rises.
You are mistaken about Bruce Wayne escaping from the pit with one day left to go. That is the date of him revealing himself back in Gotham, but it is not the same day he escaped from the Pit. You referenced him smashing the television in another one your many replies, but that happened months before his escape. I don't even think he was walking yet. You might want to go for a second viewing, because there is nothing that indicates the date of his escape is the same date of his arrival in Gotham.
I will say that there are a few small plot holes, but as for Joker stunts and Bruce's good timing, dude you have to have some suspension of disbelief in a superhero comic book movie. Relax and be entertained. Nothing about Batman is plausible in a real world scenario. It doesn't matter.
I think watching the joker set up a bunch of barrels of gasoline in a ferry or a building would be boring as f. I really dont care how he did it, because it prolly would not have been entertaining watching him set up his stuff. Im just going to assume that the Joker used either fear and/or respect and/or violence to for people to let him set up shop cause i know if i was a security guard of a ferry place and a guy like the Joker just showed up and killed my partner and was wearing a vest full of grenades ready to suicide bomb us all up then i would let him do whatever he wants to while i run away.
I think I found the biggest plot hole yet. Why didn't they detonate the bomb when it was clear the Batman had return (he made a huge Batman fire logo)? What is more important here? Blowing up Gotham or having a fight with Batman?
I think that comes down to Bane's arrogance. I mean he broke Batman earlier in the film so he was probably confident he could do it again. When are the bad guys anything but over confident
Man, Bane was confident that he was going to break Batman before they even fought. Of course he's going to think hes going to be able to do it the second time around. And there was always that failsafe of a remote detonator to fall back on if Batman actually beat Bane to keep them confident
A lot of these plot holes can debated. Batman should have used more gadgets in the film BUT he did use strategy to defeat bane. Once he knew what his mask was used for, he targeted it. He knew that was the only way to defeat him. It was not a perfect film by any means, but it was different and still very entertaining. Also like many others said, bruce needed support and talia was trying to gain his trust so they fucked.
I would like to kno the favorite movie of every1 who bitched n complained. Im sure 99% of them have plot wholes too, but they just like to be dicks . Oh well, u cant please every1
How did his knee get better?
Wayne could not even stand up without a cane, until he put that gadget on his knee. But, did bane let him keep that gadget in prision?
Batman punched Bane in the face and mask many times in their first sewer fight, but nothing happened, it didn't break.
Also, Bruce knew Miranda for a few years, he didn't just meet her for the first time when he went to the charity ball. Remember, they worked on the energy project together before he shut it down for fear of it being weaponised.
It didn't break in the 2nd fight either. He cut one of the tubes sending pain relievers to his face.
I agree in almost everything except Batman's Superhuman Time Management, he did all that stuff after the Bomb went off. When all the damages were repaired and Gotham City was reconnected and we even see the Bat Statue.
Just saw the movie - I really enjoyed it. It seems for these types of movies you either have Bay or Nolan. Give me Nolan any day. There were a couple of issues, how about the continuity error on the stock exchange attack, it's daylight than five minutes latter Batman is tracking Bane at night? Also the stock trades were also a little suspect. He would have to lose the money to someone. Did Bane have an offshore account, or maybe a swiss bank account, ahahahahahahhaahah. Sorry that was terrible.
About the random hookup - what is not believable? Bruce Wayne has random hook ups all the time. He's a billionaire PLAYBOY. Even Alfred teases him for coming home alone after his first night out of the house in 8 years because when Bruce was in the swing of things ... he was in the SWING of things. Talia has Bruce Wayne’s child Damien in the comic books. It's never been a secret that they had a sexual attraction, so why not have sex when you're spending the night together? Or better yet - why not spend the night with a woman you’re sexually attracted to after she saves your company and family legacy by stepping in for you while you try to figure out your financial problems… which finally put you both on good terms (something she's wanted for almost a decade). It makes more 'sense' than most of the hook ups any of us had in college.
Also - Catwoman's sexuality? Read a comic book. Watch a Batman cartoon. Her friend has been in her origin story and comic books since before any of us even bothered about Catwoman's origin. Right there is a plot hole in your post "why would Celina acting how and living with who she does in the comic books and famous 90's animated series be a plot hole in the movie?"
I could not agree more. I agree with all of the plot holes mentioned in the article (and more in other articles) except people demanding an explanation as to why they hooked up. What is so hard to understand? I know a lot of people on forums probably dont hook up that often...but I am sure you can recall at least one hookup that made less sense. Also one serious issue I have with this movie that no one has mentioned is the "pit prison" it self. I feel like an amateur contender on American Ninja Warrior could have easily climbed out, yet Batman, one of the most skilled and physically gifted acrobatatic martial artists ever could not? A 6 year old girl made the leap. He could not. Also how many prisoners were down there? Who was the warden? Why didn't they just climb out when Bane dropped him off? Did Bane force them to stay down there? Could they not have used a grappling hook? Wasn't there metal to use from the prison bars and enough rope? So dumb. I get that it was suppose to be a symbol, but it took me right out of the movie. The entire time I thought it would have been so easy to get out of there. All of that said, I still really liked the movie...
Don't forget that at any point anybody in the pit could have just slung the rope over the second stone platform and climbed the rope across the gap--it wouldn't even require additional tools.
The girl had the fear of death as motivation to make that jump and she was the daughter of Ra's al Ghul, so she's not just any ordinary girl. Also you have to make the jump on a small platform (so no running start) so its not really as easy as you make it out to be. Yes of course Bane forced them to stay down there, did you see anyone act out against Bane and survive in the movie other than Batman? wtf a grappliing hook? That thing is like multiple stories up. i really dont see anyone being able to throw something up over those prison walls. psh "so easy to get out of there". I bet you the kind of person that thinks that surfing or drifting would be just so easy.
Fear of death, yes I know, it was only explained to us 17 times in the movie. Again, one of the issues with the movie. So the daughter or Ra's al Ghul now has a 40 inch vertical because she fears death? Great explanation. I am sorry I missed that one. I can buy that Bane forced the prisoners to stay down there as punishment for the near death beating they gave him years prior, so I will give you that one. Yes a grappling hook. There were so many materials and labor to get out of that "several story" prison. How many stories do you think it was? Are you not familiar with skyscrapers? A 10 story building is approximately 100 feet. You think that prison was larger than that? Are you able to throw a 4 lb object more than 50 feet? Regardless there were many other ways to get out of that prison. It was just anti-climactic. Also I don't think surfing is easy, it is difficult and takes a lot of practice. Simple climbing and jumping does not, especially for Batman.
Ongoing critiques of the various inconsistencies and leaps of logic in The Dark Knight Rises (DKR) are based not on a misunderstanding of the film, but rather on the premise that these inconsistencies dramatically weakened DKR and had the overall effect of lessening the enjoyment of the film.
It is true that Nolan attempted to explain away some of the various problems with the story (i.e., the hi-tech leg brace, Bane's exposition on the role of hope in despair, etc.). It is also true that one can deduce answers to some of the issues that have been raised by chalking it up to Bruce's resourcefulness (i.e., he's Batman). Yes, I agree that Bruce may have had secret bank accounts he could access from anywhere in the world. I also agree that, yes, Bruce may have previously set up contingency plan ABC in order to deal with scenario XYZ and so forth (i.e., returning to Gotham after escaping from a hole in ground halfway around the world with no money or Bruce regaining access to his Bat gear after being outed as Batman by Bane).
However, filmmakers by definition are storytellers, and the best storytellers have the ability to create a world in which audience members can lose themselves, one in which they can easily believe. In order to successfully achieve this goal, the filmmaker must not allow plot holes and other inconsistencies to appear in the final cut, because these problems ultimately have the potential to take audience members out of the world depicted in that movie, thus lessening the overall enjoyment of the film and diluting its impact. This is exactly what happened to me and others when we were watching DKR.
If Nolan wants us to believe that it is plausible for a man like you and I to dress up as a giant bat and run around the rooftops of a major metropolis beating up criminals, then the plot and the narrative and all of the techniques used to move that story forward must be plausibly constructed. This is the reason why Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are regarded as great films that transcend the comic book genre: Nolan created a world on film in which the existence of Bruce and Batman was plausible.
In DKR the moments of implausibility substantially outweighed the moments of plausibility. For example, we understand that Bane's plan to blow up Gotham is meant to unfold over the course of 90 days or five months, as you say. The problem with using this approach, though, is that it effectively slows down the story while simultaneously opening up gaping plot holes. There is no plausible reason for Bane to wait three to five months to blow up Gotham other than the fact that this grants Bruce sufficient time in the screenplay to recuperate from his back injury.
We understand that it is the tradition in these larger than life good vs. evil stories for the bad guys to give the hero a chance to win the day by wasting precious time explaining their plans to the hero (i.e., monologuing) or making some bumbling mistake at the end, rather than simply carrying out their plans to destroy the world in a ruthless and efficient manner. The difference between a good movie and a mediocre movie of this type is how much plausibility the filmmaker can bring to this moment, the pregnant pause before the enactment of the master plan.
In James Bond movies, the villain usually captures Bond, tells him what his plan is, leaves him to die, and then goes off to execute his plan. After the villain leaves, James Bond escapes and finds a way to foil the plan. I would argue in the majority of movies of this sort there are very few villains who would wait three to five months to execute their master plan after the big reveal. There is a good reason for this. It's because allowing for the passage of that amount of time immediately saps the film of its energy and believability. By choosing to allow Bane to exercise such (in your own words) "strange logic and motivation," Nolan serves to muddle the line of his story unnecessarily.
Once having made this narrative decision, Nolan is now forced to find ways to keep the audience interested in the events taking place in Gotham while Bruce is offstage. He does this by following Commissioner Gordon and John Blake around and by depicting the various kangaroo courts in action until such time that Bruce can heal himself and find his way back to Gotham. Again, the problem with this approach is in both the execution and the plausibility. We already know that the bomb will blow, and we also understand that the actions of Blake and Gordon during this stretch of the film are meant to create a sense of hope in the minds of Gotham's citizens and in the members of the audience.
However, we also know that there is nothing that Gordon and John Blake will ultimately be able to do to stop the bomb. We know this, because Batman has been established as the single character who can successfully foil Bane's plot. As the protagonist, Batman is the one character whom the audience as well as the characters in the film have invested their hope in. Unfortunately, Batman is not on screen for most of the second act. Instead, he is stuck in a hole in the ground, and when he does escape, Nolan does the audience a grave disservice by failing to show or even tell how Bruce returns to Gotham as Batman. This further raises the implausibility factor. I must, therefore, conclude that the three-to-five month nuclear setup and Bruce’s time in the hole create a dead spot right in the middle of the film when the audience is primed for the climax to begin.
In closing, I would caution against people dismissing the inconsistencies that I and others have raised as nitpicking or that "It's only a movie" or "It's a movie based on a comic book--what do you expect?" I think that we as sophisticated film goers and believers in the Batman mythos have a right to expect movies produced by filmmakers who seek to ground the adventures of Bruce Wayne/Batman in reality, and who purport to represent our hero in a gritty, realistic, and plausible fashion to play by those same rules throughout the course of those films. If the film fails to do that or lapses into such illogic or implausibility that it sufficiently jars viewers out of the world and out of the story that is being shown on screen, then that film must necessarily be defined as a lesser film. I suspect that there are many people who would agree with me when I say that similar plot holes, leaps of logic, and inconsistencies in Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin film also lessened their enjoyment of that movie. The best course of action for Nolan would have been to tighten his narrative and eschew those plot points that muddied the clear line of his story, which fundamentally seems to have been one of revenge (Talia & Bane taking revenge on Bruce for defying Ras al Ghul and the League of Shadows). That approach, in my view, would have been superior than to leave all these story problems and other inconsistencies hanging about for moviegoers like us to dissect.
Wow, that was way too long to read - I'll address only one thing. I think the reason Bane waited five months to execute his plan was simple - and Bane explained this to Bruce when he put him in the pit. Bane wanted Bruce to suffer and made him watch on TV the destruction of Gotham - five months would have seemed like an eternity to Bruce while he was lying helpless in the pit while watching his city burn. Bane was punishing Bruce for the death of Ras Al Ghul and was working for Talia, so she wanted to punish Bruce as well. Once Gotham was ashes, Bane stated that Bruce has his permission to die.
Bane did not count on Bruce being able to recover quickly and certainly underestimated him - Ras Al Ghul certainly underestimated Bruce in "Begins;" hence , Ras got killed via the great train crash. Ras stated The League of Shadows underestimated Bruce’s parents...they underestimated Bruce as well.
You put a lot of thought and effort into your analysis. Thank you.
About Batman and Robin, wouldn't you argue that it was a much different type of movie than TDKR?
I feel like there was more of a sense of fun in movies back in the 90s. Now every comic book movie has to be super duper serious, but noticeable elements of it come out half-baked, in light of poor storytelling through execution and technique that are more used to convey grand ambitions or themes behind the film (instead of letting the story, what happens, speak for itself).
I wouldn't care so much about plot holes if TDKR was anything like Batman and Robin, but if you're going for a level of sophistication here, which the Batman movies are noted for, I find plot holes almost inexcusable.
Also, I'm taken aback that this screenplay was written by the guys who wrote Memento. These guys made the plot of Memento work, but couldn't do the same with this movie?
Speaking of which, I miss those fun movies. What the hell happened to movies like The Sandlot?
And was this kind of thing done with The Avengers, by the way?
By definition, a plot hole that can be plausibly explained using the logical structures established by the story, is not a plot hole. If a story explicitly (or implicitly) states that a thing is impossible, and then said thing happens, that is a plot hole. However, as several people have already pointed out, there are many possible explanations to all of the above points that ARE internally consistent with the story's logical structure.
If Nolan had taken the time to explain each and every gripe mentioned here, he would have been criticized for bad pacing and exposition. Instead, he expects the viewer (and this is reasonable for a story teller - good or otherwise - to do) to fill in some of the explanations. This will occur naturally if the viewer suspends their disbelief. Expecting some suspension of disbelief is not the same as leaving a plot hole. Ultimately, choosing whether or not to suspend your disbelief is a matter of opinion, and certainly some people will feel that they couldn't suspend their disbelief. However "De gustibus non disputandum est" - in matters of taste, there can be no debate, thus arguing that the plot is flawed because you couldn't suspend your disbelief, is pointless. Yes, a completely water-tight story might not require any suspension of disbelief, but requiring the suspension of disbelief does not automatically make a story bad, or badly written. And honestly, if you are unable to suspend disbelief when watching a superhero movie, you are not watching the right movie.
You said -" This is the reason why Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are regarded as great films that transcend the comic book genre: Nolan created a world on film in which the existence of Bruce and Batman was plausible."
I don't believe that is true. Both of the stories have, central to the operation of the story, technological items that require much suspension of disbelief to be accepted (eg. the water vaporiser, the cellphone sonar). None of those are exactly plausible. The films did make the franchise more realistic and gritty, and that was what made them successful, but they didn't make a "plausible" millionaire superhero. I posit that what made the first two films so successful, and indeed, the third film as well, was the way that they worked with themes. It is the CHARACTERS, that are plausible, and human. The villains don't just want to destroy the world, they want to make statements about today's society, some of which are not completely wrong. Batman can bleed - he can even die. (The ending IS somewhat ambiguous regarding this, and rightly so. That is what makes it poignant and powerful - the viewer can believe what they want to believe, and nobody is wrong.) There are also themes that expose much of the corruption in society, and celebrate the strength of the human spirit, and the great human values such as hope, love, etc. This, is truly why the films are so powerful.
Forgetting all the other things, there was one thing in the movie that left me completely confused, when Bruce escapes from the hole, doesnt he push the rope that is attached at the top into the hole ? or did I imagine that .... if he did, what the hell was that about ... batman helping all the poor prisoners escape, by giving them a rope to climb up ?
Dunno - thought that was wierd, I must have imagined or mis-saw what happened.
First of all...Catwoman IS bisexual with her "friend" in the comics, so that is not a logical gripe at all...and second, your last logical gripe about "Robin not having the cashflow to take batman's spot"...how is that a logical gripe when that's not even what happened? When did Robin take Batman's place? When did we see that in the movie? It didn't happen, so that can't be a logical gripe. This article just seems more like anything you could think of to nitpick the movie, not necessarily logical gripes.
Also all of you people nitpicking the 5 months taking too long for Bane to act out his plan...Bane says...IN THE MOVIE...he wants Bruce Wayne to watch Gotham crumble...if everyone was disintegrated in an atomic blast, how the hell was Bruce Wayne going to watch Gotham crumble? You people are just making up nitpicks that don't exist, these problems are explained away in the movie itself...were you even paying attention?
Howcome nobody has mentioned yet that stab wound that miraculously dissapears once Batman boards the Bat to get rid of the bomb? Also, Talia's last words and subsequent death must be one of the cheesiest and crappiest ultimate villain's deaths in the history of cinema.
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