Werner Herzog on Acting, Americana, and Journeys Into the Abyss

I was looking back at all of your films, and Into the Abyss focuses on such a specific issue. Is there one central message you've been trying to communicate that comes through most clearly here?

I've never done an "issue" film, and Into the Abyss is not an issue film, either. If you expect that, it would be very, very limited and very reduced. It's more like an American Gothic or like a tapestry of a senseless crime with all of its repercussions. Anyway, a common sort of thing? Strangely enough, I thought about this recently, because it dawned on me that Into the Abyss could have been the title of many of my films that I've made -- including Grizzly Man, including Aguirre: The Wrath of God, including The Great Ecstasy of the Sculptor Steiner...

Fitzcarraldo?

Fitcarraldo not so much. That's probably more... Well, quite a few of my films. And I have to say one thing: People are always fascinated or puzzled by how far I have stretched out. I have filmed on every continent professionally, including Antarctica. Yes, I have spread out horizontally, but it's not the horizontal sort of reach out. It's always the vertical view deep inside the human condition -- in this case, into the abyss of the dark recesses of the human soul. So in a way, trying to look deep inside what constitutes our humanness. For example, the cave film -- Cave of Forgotten Dreams -- it's like the beginning: Looking deep into prehistory, where does humanness start? Where do modern human beings begin? You see the birthplace.

Are you proud of your films?

Of course! Of course I am!

No offense! It's just that "pride" is so relative, so abstract.

No, I can I give you the amount and the direction of my pride. It's the same sort of pride that I have as a father. When I look at my children, it's absolute pride. And the children are wonderful. They differ from me: They will be all over the place -- and the world is theirs already -- and I just do not mind because they are so magnificent. And as a parent, I'm not an exception. I think everybody is like that. And I have a similar attitude about my films. But you have to leave them alone from a certain moment on. They have to go out and find their audience and find their place.

Speaking of Fitzcarraldo, it just occurred to me it's almost 30 years old.

It was like yesterday. It hasn't aged. The film hasn't aged, and in a way, inside, I haven't aged. Yes, of course when you look at me and you look at the photos, 30 years ago I had more hair on my head. But it doesn't really matter. And by the way, my output is bigger than ever before.

What's your relationship with that film three decades later?

I love it. I just love it. It's a specific notoriety that the film has. I think it's a fine achievement, and I really wouldn't want to miss the film or the entire experience.

What's next? I've read that you're acting again?

Yes, I am acting again. I'm fairly good as an actor when it comes to roles of hostile or dangerous guys, or violent and debased and dysfunctional characters. And of course, since this is a big Hollywood film, they have studied my performance in other films. So I was not involved in any casting; I was just invited.

Why do you think that was?

Because I'm good! You see, when it comes to an expensive film, you can't fool around and make a choice of somebody who is known as a filmmaker. If you are bad as an actor, it may really damage the film. So they apparently took a very close look -- I mean, the director, the producer, Tom Cruise -- they took a good look at what I am onscreen as an actor.

But why do you think you're so good at it?

I don't know. Well, I like everything that has to do with cinema: writing, directing, editing, acting... Just everything. And of course I know what I should do and what I should not do. I wouldn't accept a part in a movie where I thought I couldn't manage it. In a way, for example, this is why I accepted a guest part in The Simpsons. And I'm good in there. I'm the voice of the plastic bag in Ramin Bahrani's film Plastic Bag. And I'm good in Harmony Korine's Julien Donkey Boy.

Cruise is an interesting actor to me -- someone who's never directed, but who's instead worked with some of the foremost filmmakers of the last half-century: Kubrick, Scorsese, Coppola, Spielberg, and many others. Have you met him?

Yes.

What do you think of his regard for filmmakers? Do you think his wanting to work with you in this context was because he probably wouldn't have the chance otherwise?

No, he does not work with me. He works with the director, Chris McQuarrie. I'm only a partner in crime onscreen. But let me try to describe him: Yes, he has worked with some very, very good -- very good -- serious filmmakers. But what strikes me is that sometimes you can tell from five miles' distance: "This is a professional man. He means business." He's extremely well-prepared, very good to work with, very respectful -- a very kind human being. And you can tell, strangely enough, from five miles' distance.

McQuarrie aside, being on this set is probably as close to working with you as Tom Cruise is going to get, considering the films you make.

Not necessarily, because the kind of films he has been into -- like Mission: Impossible -- I'm convinced that... I don't even know who made Mission: Impossible. Who directed Mission: Impossible?

The first one was Brian De Palma.

OK. Brian De Palma is certainly the better director than me.

Really?

If I had tried to make Mission: Impossible, I wouldn't have come up with a film as intense as Brian De Palma. I mean this very film, for example. There are other people who do that better.

Fair enough. In any case, you're looking forward to this?

Yes! I'm going to have a good time. And I love Pittsburgh. My first time ever in America was Pittsburgh; I chose Pittsburgh. I left my scholarship that I had after four or five days, and then I was literally homeless. I was picked up by an absolutely wonderful family and became part of a household of six children between 17 and 27. I was adopted -- I was literally adopted from walking in the street a the outskirts. So I have seen the best of America. I've seen it right away.

A slightly edited portion of this interview was previously published on Movieline.

Read Movieline's review of Into the Abyss here.

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[Top photo: AFP/Getty Images; Page 2 photo: CDTV]

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