Paul Giamatti and Alex Shaffer on Win Win and the Upside of Being in Big Momma's House

I was going to ask if Win Win was the best wrestling movie since Vision Quest, but isn't Win Win the only wrestling movie since Vision Quest?

Giamatti: I think it's the only one.

Shaffer: There are a whole bunch of bad, independent ones. Like there was this one called Reversal. Reversal showed "the real side of wrestling." That was like what real wrestling was like; it was about this kid growing up wrestling, and he was 5 years old and his dad was putting him in the sweatsuit. So that was the real side of wrestling -- but it was not good.

Does this movie answer the age-old question: Is it harder to act or wrestle? To be honest, I'm not sure if that's an age-old question or not.

Giamatti: Well, that's a good question, actually. Which is harder?

Because if they just brought in an actor and said, "Hey, we're going to teach you some moves"...

Giamatti: They could have done that, but it wouldn't have been as good. At all.

Shaffer: I think acting is, overall, to become the best at it, is still much harder than to become the best at wrestling... I couldn't even finish that sentence because they're two different things. They are completely different skills, and it's just as hard to be good at wrestling as it is to be as good of an actor.

True, they are two different things. But for this specific job, both were required.

Giamatti: Well, the thing is, the lucky thing is... Well, not "lucky," because [director] Tom [McCarthy] could tell you were going to be a good actor. So once he could handle the acting -- not so much just the actual wrestling moves -- but the way he carries himself, everything, was completely authentic. And you could have gotten a very good actor who could have done that, but, still, it wouldn't have been the same thing.

You mentioned a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Does that mean you don't want to act anymore?

Shaffer: Oh, I want to do mo
re. I guess it was a once-in-a-lifetime experience to get your foot in the door. I definitely want to do more.

Giamatti: Cool.

Shaffer: Cool? You didn't know that I wanted to more? This comes to you as a surprise?

Giamatti: No... I mean, I didn't know how serious you were about it. You've gotten more serious about it since the last time that I saw you, which was last year...

Shaffer: No. You saw me at Sundance. But that doesn't count because [sarcastically] that was so recent.

Giamatti: Jesus Christ, it wasn't that long ago.

OK, so it sounds like something you've been thinking about more recently.

Shaffer: I mean, while I was making the movie I was thinking about it, but it wasn't a decision I made until probably after the movie. After everything was done, probably around summertime, I was really getting into it and getting into acting.

This is only your second sports movie after Cinderella Man. When reading scripts, do you hold sports movies to a higher standard because your dad was commissioner of Major League Baseball?

Giamatti: No. It just has to be a good script, whatever it is. No, I don't look at it from any sense of my own background. Honestly, I even forget about that when I'm flipping a script. That never even really occurred to me with my own background and my father and stuff like that.

I didn't know if there was ever a sense of, "Yeah, I know how this stuff really works!"

Giamatti: [Laughs] Oh, no. No. I mean... a baseball movie? Maybe. I don't know, that might be different. I might think differently about that.

Shaffer: I think you would make a good baseball coach.

Giamatti: I could be a good baseball coach. I could be like Tommy Lasorda. I could do that. [Laughs]

But then there will be the press questions.

Giamatti: Yeah, there's that, too.

[Sarcastically] So, what do you think about steroids?

Giamatti: Exactly! That's another reason I probably wouldn't do a baseball movie.

What was the hardest part for you in filming a movie, considering it was your first?

Shaffer: I would say acting in general was the hardest part for me. I mean, I didn't know how to do it. I was kind of just pretending to be someone else. That's really what acting is. But I was taking it very simply; I was acting in a very simple way. But just working with Paul and Amy, and all of them really got me into it.

Giamatti: Simple is the way to do it, though.

When filming the wrestling scenes, did you just do your thing or did you have to slow anything down for film?

Shaffer: Yeah, every once in a while they would say, "Um, could you get in the frame?" I think we had to slow down a couple of times. We had to go out of bounds at a certain place.

Did you ever want to say with the wrestling aspect, "I know what I'm doing. It's my way or the highway?"

Shaffer: [Laughs] No!

Giamatti: I will say, there's something that happened with you, and I thought it was so fascinating. You may not even remember this. There's a thing toward the end where he fights with me on the lawn and he pins me. And I was sort of supposed to be chasing him, and I kind of grab at you and you fall over. And we were shooting a couple of times and I would reach for him to grab and he would start to go over, but he would never hit the ground. And Tom kept saying, "You've got to fall over, man." And you were like, "OK." And then we would do it again and you wouldn't fall over. He'd almost fall over, but he'd always get himself back up. And you came over to me at one point and you said, "Dude, I can't fall over. I can't do that. I don't want to fall over." It's like you couldn't let go of the idea that as a wrestler, "I'm not going to fall." So you literally had to practice falling. I literally had to take him out and push him over.

Shaffer: I had to be a falling lump. I didn't know how.

Giamatti: He didn't know how to do it because his body kind of wouldn't let you do it.

Like a reflex?

Shaffer: Yeah, it was weird.

Giamatti: You would almost hit the ground but then still get up! Your legs would get under and you would get back up.

Shaffer: When I would hit the ground, my back would never touch the ground.

Giamatti: It was fascinating. His body had it's own instinct.

In moments like that, did you have to remind yourself that the actor you're working with has never acted before?

Giamatti: No, I never felt like that. Like, "Oh, gee, this kid doesn't get it," or something.

Did you, Alex, ever feel like that? That maybe you didn't belong?

Shaffer: Probably once or twice. I was a little nervous...

Giamatti: [Starts laughing]

Shaffer: OK, I have to say it did go by in my mind, like, I have to get this scene right because Paul and Bobby [Cannavale] are doing so great. Or everyone is waiting on me, I have to get this scene done. I mean, maybe like once or twice. They always made me feel really comfortable.

Giamatti: You know, you never showed it. I would have never known that you felt like that, ever.

So we are tossing around the idea of doing a "Movies You Had No Idea Paul Giamatti Is In" post.

Giamatti: Oh?

Big Momma's House was surprising to me.

Giamatti: Not to me! I remember being in that! I guess so. I mean, there are a lot of people out there in the world who know I was in that movie. A lot of people recognize me for that.

Shaffer: I remember your story from when you were in Ohio and you were in a bad neighborhood and they told you that you couldn't walk around...

Giamatti: It was in Cleveland, they said, "Don't leave the set, don't walk around this neighborhood." I was like, "Enh." So I walked around. You know, it was a predominantly black neighborhood, and everybody had seen Big Momma's House. So I was fine. Everybody was like, "Oh my God, don't..." And [in the neighborhood] it was just like "Big Momma's House!"

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