Paul Giamatti on Barney's Version, Playing Drunk and the Politics of Karma

Covering three decades of this guy's life, were you ever apprehensive about being able to accurately convey this entire period in the space of 132 minutes?

I was worried about cramming all the vitality of the novel that he put into the script. There was a lot more stuff about being at work; a lot of of stuff had to go, or it was going to be a four-hour movie, you know. I was worried that as that stuff went, you were going to lose this sense of bustly, kind of Dickensian vitality that's in the book -- all these crazy, wonderful characters, a lot of whom kind of came into the screenplay. That I was worried about more in terms of scope. Would we get that feeling? I hope it has some of that. But inevitably, you're going to lose some of that.

And yeah -- I was worried about the aging thing being convincing all the time, I'm sure. I was definitely worried. And it works. The make-up is so good. There are these great cuts from me being young to me being old that are really kind of cool. You really see this huge jump. The make-up is so good.

The editing is good, too.

The editing is really good. And the writing. But of course I wanted it to work; there's just always that threat.

I wanted to bring one last thing about that Crowe conversation, in which you mentioned you'd like to believe in a karmic cycle -- that bad behavior and mistreatment comes back to the people who perpetrate it.

What? I said that to him?

Yeah! He said that when he or others act like a "dick," then that comes back to them. You said you'd like to believe that.

I think I said I'd like to believe that, but I don't believe it's true. I think that's what I'm implying when I'm saying that: 'Boy, would I like to be believe that."

But with this and Barney's behavior in mind, does he get what he deserves in the end?

I don't think anybody deserves to go that way. I don't think anybody does. It's really horrible to have that loss of memory like that. It's awful. [Long pause] That's a tough one, man. I don't know. Ugh.

He's obviously a pretty nuanced character.

He is a pretty nuanced character. He's potentially a murderer, even though he's not. He does some bad things. But saying that, it's not a heavily moralizing movie, I don't think.

The consequences of his actions -- pertaining to his one-night stand, anyhow -- are pretty severe.

Yeah, she takes it pretty far and pretty severely. But does he deserve that? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Do you? Does he deserve that fate?

I don't think he deserves that. But I think Miriam was on her way out anyway, and this just precipitates her exit.

Yeah, probably.

Fair enough! Speaking of Miriam, the relationship between hr and Barney is so lovely -- so beautiful and fragile. What was it like developing that with Rosamund Pike?

She was amazing. I mean, the thing is, I first saw her in that James Bond movie [Die Another Day], and I was thinking, "Wow -- they got the really hot woman who's a really good actress. That's amazing!" Usually it's just the hot woman, and who cares? They're usually not good actresses. So I remember being kind of weirdly obsessed with her for a while: "This woman is f*cking great." And I was really excited that she was going to do it. But she came in and auditioned for it -- like twice. They were being very insane about getting that part exactly right. She came in and sat down, and I felt immediately comfortable with her. Immediately intimate; a lot of women came in, but she was immediately touching me, and it was really warm right off the bat. When she walked out, there was just no question that this is the person who should do it.

Then we got to rehearse, and there was more to it. It was just one of those things; I don't know if I can say how or why it worked so well. It just did. She's a f*cking great actress. She's a really f*cking great actress. And in some ways, she provided me with what Miriam provides Barney: She's really grounded, really smart and really know what she's doing. She really knows her sh*t -- and I don't. I'm a f*cking mess. And she got me really grounded every time I did those scenes with her: "I feel safe as hell standing here with this woman." Really f*cking cool person. I really loved her; I really think she's amazing.

I believe you!

I don't mean to go on and on about it! But I sit and watch this movie, and every time, I'm like, "Holy sh*t!" Because she's great-looking, obviously, but it's one of the first times I've seen a movie where I think: 'This is a real grown-up in this movie. This is a really, truly grown-up person." And she doesn't seem stiff or anything; she's just amazing. And that part could have been just this pretty, perfect woman. But she gives it so much depth and smarts.

I think some of that reflects your persona and the trajectory of your characters as well -- films like John Adams, Sideways, American Splendor, where your volatility is balanced out by these women.

That's true. I hadn't even thought of that -- that in a lot of ways I play these characters who need to be grounded by somebody.

Even Cold Souls. You're dependent on them, but so are they on you. What do you make of that?

It's funny; I've never thought of that. And yeah, American Splendor has that, too -- that woman who comes in and kind of grounds somebody. But what are they getting out of it? I don't know. It's not anything I ever consciously went about. Now that you're pointing it out... I've never really seen it before.

Changing subjects entirely: Dustin Hoffman. It looks like you two had sort of a blast together.

Absolutely. I don't know if you've ever met him or talked to him; he's pretty hilarious. Any thought that comes into his head comes right out of his mouth. He's a very vital guy. He could have played this part [Barney] now if they could have aged him down, totally.

The Curious Case of Barney Panofsky.

Exactly. The way he works is fascinating. I suppose there's a lot of old-school Actors Studio stuff going on; he'll rip a scene apart and make complete mayhem out of it for a while. And it's fantastic, actually: He doesn't throw it out, and he doesn't f*ck with the words, necessarily. He just puts it in a blender for a while if he feels like it's working somehow for him. And he can sense if it's not for you. He's incredibly generous that way; he'll say, "Stop, do you need me to do that again?" And he'll throw other stuff at you. He messes with it insanely and then eventually brings it back.

How does his messing with that chemistry affect what you do?

I loved it. First I was kind of like, "Holy sh*t, what is this guy doing?" But that was kind of great. I've never really had anybody do this kind of stuff with me before. I heard about other actors -- De Niro you hear about doing things like this -- but I didn't know how he was going to work or what he was going to be like. It absolutely jolts you and wakes you up, but after a while, if you can go with it, I found myself starting to do it with him. It was fantastic and really very invigorating. It was very physical feeling, like a contact sport, even.

Have you ever felt yourself having that kind of effect on other actors?

No. [Laughs] I work very differently, and also, I'm very unobtrusive on the way other people work. You know what I mean? I'm very sensitive to somebody else if they need to work a certain way. That's cool with me; I can learn to adapt to it. I don't think I have that kind of effect, but I don't know. I don't know, maybe I have. I remember doing this movie called The Hawk is Dying with Michelle Williams, and I remember her one day going, "You're really out of your f*cking mind in this thing." But I don't know if that was a positive effect on her or not. We had a good time together, though.

What is your trick -- your method, if any -- to playing drunk?

Oh. I've done it a lot; I've done it on stage a lot, actually. It's funny. I've played a lot of drunks. It's a fascinating subject, actually -- playing a drunk. One of the baseline things that always works when playing drunk, and that's that when somebody's drunk, they're always desperately doing everything they can to not appear to be drunk. So that always sets up a nice tension.

But the drunkenness is as individual as the personality you're playing, and there are all kinds of different drunks. This guy needed to be funnier drunk, in some ways. I don't love the way I do the drunk all the time in this; there are some moments where I feel like it's too cartoony and jokey. But some people get drunk, and they get more sober seeming. They're a mess until they get a drink, and then things start to go the opposite way. It just depends on what it is. I can't give you anything specifically... I could talk endlessly about it! That's the problem.

This interview ran previously as part of Movieline 2010 Toronto Film Festival coverage.

[Top photo of Paul Giamatti at the Toronto International Film Festival: George Pimentel/Getty Images]

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