Dustin Lance Black on What's Wrong With Virginia, Mormon Underwear and Polarizing Toronto
OK, so: The Mormon thing. You're definitely going for it here. What is left for you to say about your Mormon upbringing and its effect not just on just, but on culture and communities?
Oh, I think there's so much more to say. It's funny, because people bring up the Mormon thing, and that's when I realize it has all this Mormon stuff in it. I mean, for one, if I'm going to talk about a religion, it's the one I'm going to talk about. It's the one I grew up in! It's what's going to be discussed in a bedroom scene when they're talking about their future lives together. I don't feel like I'm attacking or judging in any way. Probably not to any devout Mormons, because they don't like these things discussed publicly, but to an ex-Mormon or a private Mormon watching it, it's not untrue. These are the things they believe in.
So Sheriff Tipton is not a Mormon hypocrite -- he's just a hypocrite who happens to be Mormon?
[Pauses] Yeah. He's hypocritical because he's having an affair. But what he says to Virgnia in the bedroom is true -- it's what Mormons believe. I'm not talking about Warren Jeffs and the fundamentalist Mormons; regular mainstream Mormons still believe in polygamy in the afterlife. It's what you aspire to: You will have multiple wives on your own planet in the afterlife. This is what Mitt Romney believes. I love this question, because it really reveals to me how little most of America knows about the fastest-growing religion in their country. This is what these folks believe in, and I don't mind talking about.
You don't mind talking about it, but you don't mind taking them down. That's what it seems like you're aspiring to in this film.
Really? Because he's hypocritical?
He likes to keep his Mormon underwear on during fetish play with his mistress! That's a pretty specific reference.
Right. It's more just based on my experience. I know that Mormon underwear was always on. My mom had hers on all the time; my father had his on all the time. It's what you do, and if it seems odd and strange, it's because it is. It never seemed that way to me growing up. I tried on my mom's Mormon underwear all the time.
Really?
It's something you believe you will get if you're a good priesthood holder. If you've grown up and you're 16 years old and you've had your training, you get that blessed Mormon underwear. And you do believe you're protected in some way.
Does Virginia believe her son is protected when she steals the missionary's underwear and gives it to her son?
Absolutely. I think that Tipton was a true believer, and he's rationalized it as many Mormon men do. He's rationalized his behavior because he has this belief system. The founder of the Mormon Church, Joseph Smith, said polygamy is the way. Three wives? You're at the top of the heap! So here's a man who's probably a bit conflicted: It's right in the future, but right now, politically and historically, it's not. And, like many men, he has the desire to cheat -- have a second spouse or something. Or maybe not "spouse," but you know. Men are men, by and large. But Brigham Young and Joseph Smith preached that the more women you have, the closer to heaven you are. So I just think he's conflicted in a way that a lot of Mormon men are. I don't see that a judgment of the church. I just see it as the way the church is and what it's struggling with right now.
Considering the polarized reactions of the last week, are you--
It's not even the last week! The New York Times loved it. I got all these phone calls from people. The test screenings were through the roof. [Laughs] It's like the last two days.
OK, so about the last two days. Does that excite you? Do you want to continue pushing those buttons or maybe come back with something more mainstream and, well, traditional?
I'm going to just keep doing my thing. I feel the style of this film is absolutely right for this film. I absolutely believe that. I love this movie. I respect their opinions, and I can see where they're coming from. But when you come to this movie, you've got to let go of a lot of preconceptions and know you're in for a bit of a ride stylistically. You're not going to be on a traditional narrative path. It's not a three-act movie. Stuff's going to be coming at you from every direction, twisting and turning, and some of it is going to feel really unbelievable, because that's how it felt to me. I thought that was all right -- that honoring of life experience. And if people don't like it, you know, they should maybe go see whatever's more in line traditionally with where things are headed. This is not that movie.
But I really hope it appeals to the people I made it for. There's a scene of people who want to see you break the rules; there's a scene of people who want to see you go for it -- hit or miss. And god bless my producer Christine Vachon and Gus Van Sant. Gus was really a fan of going for it, so that meant a lot. And it's meant a lot even in the last couple of days when he said, "No, no, no -- you did the right thing." But I also think there's a crowd that hasn't had their voices heard yet, and that's that art-loving Southern Aspirational crowd. I think there is that crowd, and we discount them when we call the South "stupid" and make fun of them. I say put this in theaters out there and see what happens.
[Top photo: Amy Graves/WireImage]
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Comments
Lance Black seems like a nice guy...but the reason he got MILK, (a journalistic story pared down to screenplay) sorry to say, was that Gus Van Sant thought he was cute....
maybe there's no there there....
not the first person to rise fast on his looks...
When the Times calls this "another slightly eccentric little film with potentially universal lessons" that is hardly a ringing endorsement.
And this is not Black's directorial debut -- he has directed about four other movies.
I was sleeping and I remember waking up and I felt really anxious and my breathing was really weird (I've had a panic attack once before when I was little and it felt like that but I felt really anxious and kept moving around). How is it possible that it was an anxiety attack or panic and anxiety attack? (Is an anxiety attack and a panic attack two different things or the same?) The information you provide here is very valuable - thank you.
I am a practicing Mormon, and Mr. Black has completely missed the mark in his characterization of Mormons, our beliefs, and our religious practices. In his interview he mentions that he sees things as they were in his young mind, so they may not have been accurate. This must be the case here because his explanations are so stunningly inaccurate. Had he said "my parents" instead of "all Mormons", I would have no problem with his statements--I might have thought his parents were a bit off, but I would know it was _his_ parents. How someone this young with so many axes to grind against Mormonism can claim to know the honest truth about the church's doctrine and practices is beyond words. Mr. Black is welcome to voice his own personal experience with Mormonism, but readers and viewers must remember it is just that--the personal experiences of a young person trying to make sense of his world which, by his own admission, was extremely distorted. His pronouncements on polygamy, sexual practices, underwear, priesthood, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and so on, are half-truths at best, and outright lies at worst. Anyone interested in knowing what Mormons actually do believe and practice would do well to ask an actual Mormon.
Well, I am "an actual Mormon" and I think Mr. Black was spot-on in every single way. What specific quote do you disagree with? Everything he said in this interview is 100% true, with the single exception of boys getting temple garments at 16. It's age 18-19 that happens.
Everything he said about Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, garments, the temple, priesthood, etc is true. He didn't say anything about sexual practices, did he? Only that some Mormons wear their garments all the time, including during sexual acts. Well, sorry if it offends you but it is also 100% true! I heard that all my life, growing up, and know several people who never took their garments off for anything except bathing, and then only out of necessity! If you don't know your faith better than this don't blame Mr. Black or me, stop being lazy and study it yourself.
A Woman From Utah Accuses Mormon Prophet Of Attempted Rape!
So people know, Black is WAY off in his description of the Mormon church and it's beliefs. I'm LDS and I DO want to see this film (I'm a diehard Jennifer Connelly fan) but really, Mormons DO NOT wear their garments to EVERYTHING (this includes sex which is what he was saying) if his parent's did, then that's his parent's. If some Mormons back in the day (I mean WAY back) did then that was them...it is not the religion. Also, you don't turn 16 and suddenly get to wear them. When you are ready to go through the temple (which is when people are usually 18 or older. You go through before you leave on a mission or if you want to get married) THEN you do. Also, it was never taught that the more wives you have the better or that the more you had got you higher up or that you were going to have as many wives as you wanted on your own planet. That was NEVER taught. Their are things in their that are taught but people have put them together and made this ridicules story. Joseph Smith and what he said on polygamy is very little because, as you can imagine, it was very "out there" for society. There are volumes being published of Joseph Smith's journals and court records and such and theyc an be avaliable to ANY ONE who wishes to read and know. Black seems to like to talk about the Mormon culture instead of doctrine. No offense, but he left teh church very young and never really was a part of it. I myself went through my own thing so I can relate to him. I have friends who left the church in their late teens and they talk just like him...they say EVERY anti thing they can and it makes them feel better about their choice. It's their choice, they are welcome to it. He says he isn't attacking, but his documentry 8:Mormon Proposition was received very poorly and it was recognized for what it was...a hate film. It was sad over and over again by people, who weren't LDS, that their was a better way to get their point of view across. I'll see this movie, which sounds like it'll be like Connelly's "Creation" very small release and I'll end up getting it on Netflix because redbox deosn't even have it. But I wanted to "clear" some things up. I know he has a lot of fans on here and they'll probably attack, but to those who happened upon it, just know he's off. He's an excellent writer and from what I hear he's an actor's director, but he does have an axe to grind...whether he admits it or not.
I am not a big defender of Black, so this is not a defense of him but a correction of some of your false claims. I have been a Mormon for 40 years and aside from him mentioning 16 as the age to get garments everything else he said is in fact 100% true! No, not all Mormons wear their garments all the time, and yes, it is becoming less common to wear them during sex, but he never said ALL Mormons are like that. The fact is that some Mormons are, and more importantly MOST Mormons were like that in the past! Luckily it is fading out with time (as reason and the internet enlighten people more over time to the ridiculousness of some of the practices) but that doesn't mean there aren't people who still cling to the old ways. It happens!
Also, Joseph Smith, and especially Brigham Young, DID in fact teach that having multiple wives was a requirement to get to heaven and that the more you had the higher your level in heaven would be! If you don't know this that's not unexpected but it WAS in their teachings and every devout Mormon back in the day believed this.
Most ex-Mormons (including Mr. Black) do NOT have "an axe to grind" nor are they "anti-Mormon" (which is a pet insult Mormons love to dish out to anybody who says things about their faith which they don't approve of) but simply have no problem telling it like it is. They have no reason to "defend" the strangeness that exists is Mormonism. Admit it, a lot of Mormons doctrine and practices (think temple ceremony, washing anointing, etc) would be seen as bizarre and peculiar to most people. It's not "anti" to point that out! It's simply the honest truth. There's nothing wrong with being "a peculiar people" but own up to it and stop being so defensive! That's advice most Mormons would do well to heed.
sorry, I need to proof read things before I hit send! lol!
wanted to say oops for my spelling errors! I really need to proof read things before I hit send! lol!
@Jocob it heppened some time