Late Shift Author Bill Carter on ConanGate, Letterman's Heirs and the Cannibalization of Late Night
Some reporters gave Conan's fans flack -- for rising up in outrage after he had been bumped from his 11:35 time slot -- because they weren't watching his Tonight Show and giving him the ratings he needed in the first place. Do you think his fans will be more loyal when he premieres on TBS? And how much will Conan's show directly affect Leno's ratings?
Well, there was never a lot of crossover clearly in audience between Jay and Conan. We saw that when Conan finally got on the air. A lot of Jay's audience just left. I don't think there are a lot of people out there saying, "Well, I am watching Jay now, but when Conan comes back, I am going to switch back to Conan." I always thought that Conan's audience crossed over more with Letterman's, but I think everyone has to be concerned about having another player in their time period.
Listen, this all comes down to the fact that NBC didn't want one of their guys to leave the network. That's really why five years ago, they gave a contract to Jay saying that he would give up The Tonight Show, and that's why they guaranteed Conan The Tonight Show. They wanted to keep both guys, and then they gave Jay the 10 PM time slot because they wanted to keep Jay from going to ABC. And then, even after it blew up, they wanted to still keep both guys, so they tried moving Conan back to 12:05. That has always been the method to their madness, and it's totally understandable because when a guy leaves, he takes an audience. He takes some viewers away.
Most people think the competition you really have to watch is between Conan, Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert because they are all cable guys and they start at the same time. That will be interesting to watch.
Do you ever tune into Lopez Tonight or Chelsea Lately?
This sounds crazy but I try to watch all of the shows some of the time instead of some of the shows all the time. I can't see as much of Chelsea Lately because she is on against Stewart head to head. But you can do something like this: You watch Stewart at 11 and watch the top five minutes of the Colbert Report at 11:30. Those first five minutes are clean -- there is no competition there. Then you can switch to watch Letterman and Leno and go back and forth between their monologues and then at midnight you can turn over and watch Kimmel do the top of his show. Then you can pretty much segue into Craig Ferguson, who comes on for the cold open right after the end of Dave. Watch that and then flip over to Fallon. Once Fallon goes to commercials, go back and see Ferguson's monologue. If you want to watch all of those in one night, you can -- and I have on occasion done that.
Now if you are going to watch Lopez and Chelsea Handler, you have to sort of set that aside and decide to watch those instead of one of the others. I watch those a little less regularly, but I do watch occasionally because I want to see what they are doing. Now, when Lopez moves in after Conan, he then becomes a midnight start time, and you can play the game even more elaborately because Kimmel doesn't really start until 12:06 or so. So you can watch six minutes of Lopez and see lots of his monologue. There is a lot of stuff you can do like that. It does take you around the dial a lot, and boy, does it keep you up late.
Craig Ferguson has said that he does not want to take over the Late Show. He is very set in his own format and he doesn't want the pressure of having to replace Dave. Do you think CBS is even thinking about that at this point?
Are they thinking about it? Well, look: Dave is 62. You have to be thinking about some kind of succession at some point. We know that Craig has the show that follows Dave, and usually those things happen -- a guy steps out, and the 12:30 guy steps in. That is what has happened although never very smoothly in the past. I would think that if -- God forbid -- Dave had another heart episode, I think Craig would be the natural guy to just start doing the 11:30 show because he is in place. If Dave were to say, "I am retiring in two years at the end of the next contract" -- and then CBS has a period of time to make a choice -- would they only look at Craig? I don't know. They would have to look and see who's available, who is not contractually obligated at that point.
Back in 2002, when Dave was dallying with ABC and CBS had to consider what they would do if he left, they made a big run at Jon Stewart to line him up if Dave left. I think Stewart would have taken it in 2002. Now I don't think he has any interest in doing that. Why would he? He is certainly as big and successful as any of the late night guys on a network. He hosted the Oscars for goodness' sake. How much bigger can he get? So he doesn't really need that. Will he be in play for CBS? I don't know. Now would Kimmel be in play? At that point, if ABC didn't want to move Nightline out of the 11:30 time slot, would Kimmel be a choice for CBS? Would Colbert possibly be a choice for CBS? I don't know. I think Ferguson would be their first choice.
When did you first become interested in late night television?
Well, of course, like everyone else, I watched a lot of Johnny Carson when I was a kid. Maybe not as much as some people, because you hear of guys like Letterman and Leno saying, "Oh my God, I grew up watching Johnny Carson," and they were obsessed with it. I wasn't. I would drop in and watch now and then. I remember watching Letterman actually when he had his short-lived morning show, which was so electric and crazy and different. But then he went to 12:30 so at that point in my life, I had little babies and I wasn't up very much -- or if I was, I was feeding a baby. So I didn't see Dave a lot in his early run at 12:30. What really obviously sparked [my interest] was attending the event when Johnny said he was going to retire. That is when I first said, "Whoa, this is going to be something big." And because I was in New York and had access to Letterman's people, I got to know them very well, and then I got to know Jay really well. Then I committed to the book, and I was off and running.
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Comments
Truly amazing interview; very professional and informative.
Can't wait for the book...
Amazing? Really?
Mr. Carter's mastery of the flow-chart style of television-viewing is astonishing, but I wonder if he's heard of a "DVR"? Or, for that matter, a "VCR"?
I really DO NOT see how British Petroleum possibly have any money left after this disaster... oh yeah, they wont pay for damages.
Truly boring interview. I couldn't help but hear Ben Steins voice as I read it, even though I am very excited about the future of Conan and the failure of Leno.
Good grief, it looks like Team Coco is afraid that their hero won't look so good with someone impartial telling what really happened. I'm amazed at the propaganda machine that took over the net on Conan's behalf.
The fact is that it takes a scumbag like Conan to demand someone else's job when that person is number one. Then, as a true hypocrite, Conan pushes Lopez out of his slot.
Conan's "fans" were indifferent when he had the Tonight Show, and then jumped on the band wagon as a response to Conan clearly manipulating the fans that he had basically ignored up until then. If only a fraction of the I'm with Coco people had actually watched him, Conan would still be on The Tonight Show.
It's easier to blame Leno instead of themselves.
@Wellington,
Well, this sounds familiar! Would you happen to be wellington2400 on Twitter, by any chance?
Anyway, I'll give your post an F- for accuracy but a B+ for effort and feeling because I'm feeling generous.
It's interesting that you should know an awful lot about Conan's fans without actually being one. Although, clearly you don't know as much as you'd like to think because otherwise you'd know we're not worried about Bill's book coming out. Bill is known for being fair and accurate. The only people who need to rely on lies and spin to make themselves look good are NBC and Jay Leno.
Have a great day!
As someone who has worked in late night tv for fifteen years, allow me to point out a salient fact that may not be apparent to the readers of Movieline: Bill Carter doesn't know anything.
Jemma,
I do know a lot about Conan fans because I used to be one. "Used to be" is the operational term. I watched Late Night from the beginning. It's unclear to me whether Conan was always this self absorbed and egoistical and I just didn't pick up on it, or whether his celebrity has just gone to head in recent years. In either case, he's a real turn off to me now.
My point is that Conan may not come out smelling like a rose in Carter's book. We'll just have to wait and see.
And yes, that's me on twitter. I'm surprised anyone noticed me among all the Coco-philes. Go figure 🙂
Oh, and BTW Jemma, you are not really trying to say you speak for all Conan fans by the use of "we" are you? Or are you depicting all Conan fans as sheeple with no individual thoughts or opinions that stray from the party line? That would be sad if you are.