Michael Caine on Harry Brown, Paycheck Roles and Why the British Do Dystopia Best

Why is it that the British do dystopia so well? Even most of the best American dystopias -- from Blade Runner to The Dark Knight -- are directed by Englishmen.

I think there's a history of it. There's a history of writers, too. For a start you have long, dull winters -- which aren't frightening. You haven't got 10 tons of ice or 12 feet of snow. It's just dull. People sit there and their imaginations start to work. I've always thought this about our writers. If you lived on the beach, you wouldn't be writing this sh*t. You'd be in the water, you'd be sunbathing. Also, it's a literary tradition. We have such a history of writers in Britain; you go to any school and any English course, and you're going to get all of these thrown at you. I think it's great. Christopher [Nolan] with The Dark Knight -- him and his brother Jonathan -- are supreme examples of that. And this young man who wrote this wrote it from his own personal experience. But he lived in an estate in the north of England called Newcastle. What was terrifying for me was that we could bring the whole story to this location, and all we had to do was change the accent. It was the same with each estate. It's quite scary.

I mean, take any extreme scene from the movie. The London Times called it "odious." And you say, "Shoot. They were the very ones who created this. The odor comes from what you did. We're showing you what you did, saying 'Do something about it,' and you're dismissing it as 'odious' instead of informative." We never got through to the people we wanted to get through to. But from a charitable point of view, we did.

I also sensed that you're very proud of the film.

I am. Very proud, indeed, because it's a wake-up call. Also, if you think in terms of a personal thing, I come from that area. When the guys were talking to
me -- a lot of the real kids are in the movie -- and they said, "Where did you come from?" And I said [pointing], "About 500 yards that way." So now I was them. Now they could talk to me. They knew I wouldn't babble them to the police or anything. I wasn't some toffee-nosed, rich... In many cases you've got these black kids talking to an elderly white man as if he was just like them. It was incredible insight into them, and it strengthened my view that prison is not the answer. It's education. I know just from statistics that education is a third of the cost of prison, and much more productive. But then the stupid film critic -- the very people we were aiming at -- calls it "odious," and they never went and saw it.

What can you do?

Nothing you can do. You just hope there's something charitable to come out of it. I did a lot a TV last year in England, and now there are are massive charities that are doing things to help rehabilitate these youngsters. But they were already there; two of the real actors who were in the film had already been rehabilitated by one of these organizations. One of the biggest ones is run by Prince Charles.

What else are you proud of?

I'm proud of my knighthood. It only applies to me; I don't care if other people know about it or whatever. I'm very proud because that's a lifetime achievement that goes way back in my country. Back to King Arthur, in fact. So there is a tradition about it that I love, though I don't insist on anybody calling me "Sir," unless it comes up as it just did. I'm very proud of my family life. I've been married to the same woman for 38, 39 years, somewhere around there. I'm proud of that. My children, and I now have three grandchildren.

Congratulations.

Thank you. Two years ago I didn't have any, then suddenly my daughter had one baby. We said, "That's fantastic." And before we could turn around she had twins. So she had them all in about 18 months. I thought, "Bloody hell! That was quick." But it's lovely. We're completely besotted. I'm a homebody. I write. I'm writing the second part of my autobiography, and then I'll write a fiction story after that. I love writing. I love it. I've gotten used to it.

Is there anything you're ashamed of? Or maybe not so proud of?

Oh, I've never thought of that. [Pauses] Ashamed of... No, not really. I mean, you do bad movies, but you never say, "Listen, this is a really bad movie. I've got to do this."

You're famous for that quote about Jaws: The Revenge -- and I'm paraphrasing -- where you said you haven't seen the film, but you've seen the house it built, and it's beautiful.

Yeah, it built a house for my mother. But when you talk about Jaws: The Revenge... Say we take Batman Begins, and I say to you, "That was a fantastically successful film wasn't it?" And you say, "Yeah, it was. It got good reviews and made a fortune." And I say, "You know why? Because I was the butler in it!" And you'd say, "What a conceited bastard. Who does he think he is? He wasn't on the screen 20 minutes out of two hours. How dare he say that! What about the special effects? Batman? All those wonderful villains? And this conceited bastard thinks..."

Twist that around, you've got exactly the same thing with Jaws: The Revenge. What the f*ck are you asking me about it for? I did 20 minutes in it. I didn't even get lead credit in it. Go to the people who played the lead! You know what I'm saying? If anybody ever brought that up, that's what I'd say. I'd say, "I played small parts in Battle of Britain. I was in A Bridge Too Far." I didn't take any credit for their success. Why should I take the blame for a failure?

Fair enough. So what's left? What do you still want to do?

I just want to write. I have a lot of the basis of a thriller I'd like to write, and I have a couple of other projects I have to keep quiet about. But they're both writing. They're not fiction. But I like writing. You don't have to look your best, you don't have to go anywhere. That's a good idea, writing.

That's why I do it.

Yeah, see? A bunch of lazy sods, we all are. I don't even have to shave. But I was telling my editors about F. Scott Fitzgerald, whom I love. He was always bombed -- he was a bit of an alcoholic. And he would write when he was in his sober moments for two years. Then he'd gather all the bits together and make a novel out of them with his editor. I said that's exactly what I'm doing with my autobiography. Someone says, "How about that time you were with Sean Connery in Man Who Would be King?" I'll write that down. Anyway... Nice talking to you.

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