Terry Gilliam: The Movieline Interview

Did they do an NRG screening for Parnassus?

No, of course not, there was no money. I mean, thank God there was no studio or any of that involved. It was a UK production with sales in Japan and France and all those places. Can you imagine what this film would have been like with studio people involved? Heath's introduction to the movie, where he's [glimpsed in a noose] under the bridge? "Well, we can't do that." I mean, it's just crazy. That's my problem with them: they're frightened, they're overpaid, and there's too many of them.

You first worked with Heath on The Brothers Grimm, and in between that and Parnassus, he had the one-two punch of Brokeback Mountain and The Dark Knight. How did he change between your two movies?

He was just getting better and more confident. I don't know if he actually changed -- he was having more fun, probably. He just loved the Joker. I talked to him a lot while they were shooting and he was like a kid: "You won't believe what I got away with today!" [Laughs] I read things subsequently where he said that it was on Grimm that he began to have fun while making a movie, and I think that was a big leap for him. I thought his work on Grimm was magnificent, but in the reviews, he's barely mentioned. Nothing changes, as Tom Waits says. People don't seem to recognize what good acting is. It's like Marty Scorsese getting an Oscar for The Departed -- I'm afraid the films before that were the great movies.

How much do those award considerations come into play when you make a movie that isn't a huge studio tentpole?

I mean, Marty didn't need it. The Departed had already done well. It's great when smaller films win an award because then they've got recognition, but when big studio films get them, it's just a chance to make a bit more money. I'm certainly not against studio films making money -- you hope that if they make money then, they'll be a bit bolder about where they spent the money. I'm happy to live off the scraps from the table, but that doesn't seem to be what happens. The film makes money, they want more of the same thing!

But would it be satisfying to you if this film did well and then you could rub it in the faces of the studios that didn't buy it?

There's always that satisfaction. [Laughs] I never just guess what a film will or won't do -- I'm always too cautious. When it does well, that's always a great moment, but until the people speak, I won't know.

I wonder if you don't secretly cherish that fight when it comes to your films. It reminds me of how Parnassus keeps bargaining with Tom Waits, this agent of the devil, but whenever Waits has the upper hand and could go for that killing blow, he'll redraw the stakes. He doesn't want the game to end.

That's exactly what they're trying to do. You can't win completely -- then there's nothing else to gamble with! They're immortals who need each other, and if one wins decisively, then the game is over. They're gamblers at heart, and it's the game that gives each identity. Without each other, they don't exist.

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