Bette Midler: Playing to Win

Q: Was he an influence on you?

A: Total. Complete, tremendous influence. The first time I heard him I never got over it. He was my idol, and he's still my idol. He told me the other night that there are no more songs. That no great songs will ever be written anymore.

Q: I assume he considers some of his early songs among those that are memorable.

A: He says those days are over. You don't hear those songs anymore, they're not being written. Or recorded.

Q: Or is it that he's gotten older and the great songs are yet to be written by younger people? Or perhaps Dylan has just lost bis passion.

A: Maybe so.

Q: Did Dylan ever disappoint you after you got to know him?

A: Sometimes it's hard to get a straight answer out of him. He's not really straight with you all the time. He's very elliptical. But he's great.

Q: In 1973, you made it to the cover of Newsweek. How did the girl from Hawaii feel then?

A: I completely expected it.

Q: Were you angry that you weren't on Time the next week?

A: Yup.

Q: The only living star who made both the same week was Bruce Springsteen.

A: That's right. And it was his manager who said I couldn't sing. Jon Landau.

Q: That was before he was managing, when he was writing for Rolling Stone.

A: That's right.

Q: So I guess you don't talk to Landau.

A: That's right. Or Bruce Springsteen. Another stiff.

Q: Why?

A: Because he wouldn't let me have a song. I needed a record producer so some guy told me that Chuck Plotkin was the guy for me. I asked if he had any songs, because I didn't have any access to any material. So he said "Oh, Chuck Plotkin produces Bruce Springsteen, I know Bruce Springsteen will give you a song." So I called Plotkin and he came over and played me the songs and I said, "Can I have that Bruce Springsteen song?" And he said, "Oh yes, sure." So I went into business, he became my producer, and I cut that record--it was "Pink Cadillac"--and then Bruce wouldn't let me have it. I spent like $25,000 on the track and then he said I couldn't sing it: "It wasn't a girl's song."

Q: Well, how did Natalie Cole get it?

A: Natalie Cole? Did she cut it?

Q: She made it a big hit.

A: After he recorded it, she cut it. But I was going to record it before he did. But he wouldn't let me have it.

Q: Would you have done it afterward as well?

A: Never. I never sing any Bruce Springsteen songs. Ever!

Q: Do you like his work?

A: Some. He's no Bob Dylan.

Q: Still, he can do some catchy things, like "Born in the U.S.A."

A: Two chords. Do you mind if I eat? Did you ever see anybody eat so much? This interview is going to kill me.

Q: Let's go back to your reaching some sort of public height by being on the cover of Newsweek. After that, your career began to plummet. Do you now understand what happened?

A: I had a great career. I was fine ... until Jinxed! I was in splendid condition. I made The Rose. Went around the world. I sold out.

Q: At what point did you sell out?

A: I mean I sold out the houses. I never sold out. My whole tour was sold out. I had a wonderful time. My manager was beating me, and I decided I couldn't take it anymore, so I left him. Then I was on my own and I had to scramble. I didn't get any offers, I was waiting for The Rose to open so I could judge where I was going. I made that picture in '78 and it didn't come out until '79. And I was nominated for an Oscar in '80. But then I got mixed up with people who didn't have my best interests at heart. I had a very unscrupulous agent who told me that if I didn't make this picture I'd have been off the screen for two years and no one would remember my name, so I had to make this picture Jinxed! So I made it. I suffered terribly for it. I behaved exactly on that picture as I've behaved on all my pictures, with complete and utter good will. But they were looking for a scapegoat and I was it. I never to this day understood it. But I was so crushed by the whole situation that I had a breakdown over it. I got over it, went back to work, started to sing again. Singing has always had a great revitalizing effect on me. Music is so healing, I just love it. I forget everything when I sing.

Q: Do you miss performing, miss touring?

A: Not so much as you'd think. Because it takes a lot out of you and it's very tiring.

Q: Earlier in your career, before you started making movies, you said that your dream--"this cheese-bomb, American crapola dream" that snagged you--had beaten you down. Is that correct?

A: Am I on trial?

Q: No, you're just being interviewed.

A: Because I feel like I'm on trial.

Q: Have you ever been on trial?

A: Actually I have. I was a witness in the Ford Motor Company suit, that was fun.

Q: Did you ever get money from them?

A: Not a cent. Not a nickel. I won and they appealed. We haven't gotten back to court yet. There was a settlement, and it was only a few hundred thousand dollars, but it was too much for them to pay. So they appealed.

Q: Getting back to your American dream ...

A: Could we just skip that question?

Q: All right, how about this one: Do you still dye your eyelashes when you feel the need for a pick-me-up?

A: I do. I like to dye my eyelashes. But I wouldn't recommend it unless you have someone to do it for you. They sell those kits in England, you know? They don't sell them here. I think it's really dangerous because you could go blind. They also sell leg waxing kits, which I think is a horrible thing to do to yourself. Ever have that done? Hurts like a motherfucker.

Q: Uh, no, why would I get my legs waxed?

A: I don't know ... if you were ever doing a picture, if you were in a diving movie and you weren't supposed to have any body hair. You're in the business!

Q: Not on that side of it.

A: I had my entire body waxed.

Q: When you decided to become a movie star, what misconceptions did you have about the business?

A: I didn't have any misconceptions about the movie business. I had misconceptions about the theater. Big misconceptions. Because I always thought the theater was one big happy family and that there were tons of jobs. And there weren't. There was no family and there were no jobs. So that really brought me up short and really pushed me into music.

Q: Before you did The Rose, you auditioned for Mike Nichols for The Fortune, but something bizarre reportedly happened before you got there: You were molested by a masseur at the Beverly Wilshire hotel?

A: Yes, true story. I didn't even audition for it. I was supposed to have a meeting with Mike Nichols and I was late for it because I'd been attacked by this masseur. And he [Nichols] was mad at me: first because I was late; secondly because he had a deal with my manager at the time who must have given him an earful; and thirdly because I was so rattled at the time I didn't even know who I was talking to. So he never forgave me. To this day I've never done a Mike Nichols picture.

Q: Would you if he asked?

A: Oh, of course.

Q: Would you do a Woody Allen film if he asked you?

A: Absolutely.

Q: Would you rather be directed by Woody Allen than have starred with him in Scenes From a Mall?

A: Well, I've been around for 20 years and he's never asked me to be in one of his movies, so I figure I was lucky to get what I got. You know? I had a wonderful experience. In fact, I still to this day think that picture was unfairly maligned. I loved the picture. I don't think anybody saw it, otherwise they couldn't have said those horrible things about it.

Q: How do you know what they said if you don't read the reviews?

A: I heard.

Q: Did you say to Woody, "You going to ask me to be in your next picture?"

A: Well, you know, he never calls, he never writes ... I dropped a few hints, but I don't know. I thought he liked me. I thought he enjoyed it. [Woody's agent] Sam Cohn called me and said he thought Scenes From a Mall was the best thing he'd ever seen me do and he was sure it would be a big hit, and he sounded genuine. He had no reason to lie. He thought we were fabulous together. And I thought, "Golly, I hope I get to do it again."

Q: Which of Woody Allen's films are your favorites?

A: I love his Alice. I thought it was brilliant. I've seen them all. Oh, Broadway Danny Rose, that's a big favorite of mine. I identify with that end of the business.

Q: What about Mel Brooks's films? A lot of people choose sides between Brooks and Allen.

A: I worship Mel Brooks. My favorite of his--oh, this is so hard--is The Producers. I think it's the funniest movie ever made.

Q: Steve Martin's favorite funniest picture is Enter Laughing. And Robin Williams's is Dr. Strangelove.

A: Enter Laughing is funny. I should see it again. Dr. Strangelove is brilliant, but it's not belly laughs like The Producers.

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