Oscar-winning Lord of the Rings screenwriter Philippa Boyens is back for another romp in J.R.R. Tolkien's Middle Earth playground with The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, and she recently sat down with Movieline to talk about the fantasy novel's adaptation to the screen.
From a technical perspective, if you're not going to have Smaug in this movie you need a secondary antagonist. How did you decide on Azog, and what resonance did he provide for you thematically?
You hit the nail on the head because when we were first looking at this as a piece of storytelling, we wanted to get to the dragon. We did try getting to the dragon in one draft, actually. But you had to lose so much along the way. We also understood that the Necromancer is too ephemeral at this moment – too much of a shadowy character that's not fully understood. It's a great mystery story, but there's a big problem because there's no actual, physical enemy. And yet the dwarves had a very natural one and he was to be found. When Peter [Jackson] talks about taking this chance to tell more of the story, that was one of the pieces that we took — that and Moria. It's the story of the great hatred between the orcs and the dwarves, where it came from and what was informing it. And, also, I mean, Azog the Defiler. What a great name! You kind of can't beat that as a name.
Balin is telling the story of Azog and the Battle at Moria at a point in the film. I have to be honest, I half expected him to say –
I must take this back someday if I ever get the chance!
"It will be mine!" It brings up the question of – well, obviously, Tolkien wrote these sequentially. You're going the other way around. The temptation for prequelitis must have been overwhelming at times.
That's a great word. And no. But you do want some level of resonance because you know the truth is we did make Lord of the Rings first. The relationship between Gandalf and Galadriel is something I particularly loved doing. People forget that Cate Blanchett and Ian Mckellen were never in a single scene together except at the very, very end.
Gandalf was fallen by the time the company got to Lothlorien.
Yeah, and I think that moment – kids especially are gonna come to this and [The Hobbit] is going to be their first introduction to Middle Earth and then they will receive the rest of the story as a sequel. And that moment where she says 'Where is Gandalf for I very much desire to speak with him' to the Fellowship and they have to tell her that he died is going to be incredibly powerful. So…yeah, a little bit of prequelitis. Just a smidge. And Balin. Seeing Balin's tomb in Fellowship will have more resonance as well.
After two more movies especially –
And Ori! Little Ori is the one who wrote "drums, drums in the deep: they are coming.'" I think probably because we've done Lord of the Rings it wasn't that hard. We had Gollum. This wasn't Gollum that you meet for the first time. We knew him. We understood how to make that internal conflict he has with Smeagal work. We had Andy Serkis the actor. Why wouldn't you use that? It's the great gift. The fact that Gandalf disappears, we know where he goes and what he's dealing with. It was interesting – a lot of pure Tolkien fans loved in Lord of the Rings that, instead of a piece of reportage, we actually followed Gandalf to Isengard. And [showed his] one-on-one with Saruman instead of merely having Gandalf tell everybody what he's been up to at the Council of Elrond. We got to see it, and we get to do the same thing this time as he goes to Dol Godur.
I was struck by the realization that if it wasn't for the addition of Galadriel to the movie, there would be zero –
Women! Yeah.
Moving forward –
She's very much part of the White Council, and they are going to have to deal with who or what resides in Dol Godur. As Professor Tolkien wrote her at this time, this part of the history, she is the most powerful being in Middle Earth.
Was he a great writer for women?
I think so.
I have some good news for you. I looked, on the schedule. There's no movie coming out December 2043.
(Intense laughter)
Don't pretend you don’t know where I'm going –
I'll be 80-something. I'll be 80 and somebody else will be doing it. That was really hard I have to say, that I couldn't go back there. [There are] extraordinary pieces of writing, extraordinary pieces of the puzzle in The Silmarillion. And we couldn't go near it. I haven't read it for 25 years. I just can't afford to have it in my head because we don't have any of the rights. And also it will just break my heart. I had to let it go.
Is there an expansion that you're proudest of? Something, perhaps, that audiences wouldn't know if they'd just read The Hobbit.
The Battle of Moria. The great animosity between the dwarves and the orcs — where that came from. I think delineating the difference between Bilbo and the dwarves — that sense of the dwarves having been part of a Diaspora, the loss of the homeland, the way that they wandered in the wild, the great longing and yearning. It's not just about the gold, because it could very easily just be a treasure hunt, this story. Which would be great rollicking children's literature, but it had to be more.
It's interesting that you say it in that way, because the book is very episodic.
Totally.
And it is an adventure story. And there's a lot of deus ex machina.
Uh, hello? Eagles!
Yes! And here I feel like you made an effort to give everyone more agency. Gandalf talking to the moth. Bilbo confusing the Trolls.
Yes. We had to do that, I think. That's when you stop being such a fan of Professor Tolkien's and you actually have to put your screenwriter hat on and make the storytelling work as a film. Bilbo is too much a piece of baggage visually in the story that it becomes very hard to take his POV if he's that passive. So we had to make him more active. And, you know, Bilbo is very clever. And he's a quick thinker.
READ MORE on 'The Hobbit':
Spoiler Talk: The Pity of Bilbo And Where Jackson & Co. Chose To End 'The Hobbit'
The Science of High Frame Rates, Or: Why 'The Hobbit' Looks Bad At 48 FPS
Richard Armitage Talks 'Hobbit' And Thorin Oakenshield, Takes A Phone Call From Sauron
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