Shepard's vision, alas, wasn't meant to be. Norris declined the offer through his rep (despite Shepard's offer to compensate in kind by appearing gratis in Norris's Total Gym workout infomercials) and the film -- which took five years of planning, hustling, adapting, calling in favors, and filming on the sly (see: the 2006 Teen Choice Awards, where Shepard appeared in character unbeknownst to anyone) -- became something slightly different than intended: a faux documentary about the tragicomic realities of getting a movie made in Hollywood.
Movieline spoke with Dax Shepard about blurring the lines between his real life, career, and friendships and the alternate versions of each that appear in the film, which features cameos by actor pals Tom Arnold, David Koechner, Bradley Cooper, Michael Rosenbaum, Jon Favreau, and Ashton Kutcher. One major off-screen force in his life, girlfriend Kristen Bell, doesn't appear in Brother's Justice -- but, Shepard promises, she's the star of his next film, a "Smokey and the Bandit"-type chase film called Outrun. And if both Shepard and Bell get their wish, they might just turn up in the film adaptation of their shared current obsession: Suzanne Collins' The Hunger Games. Let's get the campaign rolling, folks!
Take me back to the beginning when the idea for Brother's Justice first came to you. How did you envision it as a film?
Well, originally I envisioned fighting Chuck Norris in the third act. That was our full goal, that I would fight him at the end of the movie. So we tried for months and months to get him; we tried every conceivable avenue, and ultimately he just had no interest in fighting me for the movie [Laughs] despite the fact that I promised that I'd be happy to lose.
So that letter you read from Norris turning you down in the film is real?
Yeah! That's legit. I had emailed his manager and said, I will be in his workout video in exchange for, like, twenty minutes of his time and he didn't bite. I don't know if he thought it would be distracting to have me in the workout video or if I didn't have enough build... who knows. I can't get into his psychology.
His loss! So, you couldn't get Chuck.
We had shot for a couple of months straight on and gotten all of our different actor friends involved, and then it became clear that we were not going to get him. So then we had to kind of change course and figure out what story we were going to tell if it wasn't that one, and had to go back and retrofit a lot of stuff. We had these issues with an editor, this legal stuff, and a year and a half ended up going by from the time we were supposed to get Chuck Norris -- but I think it ultimately ended up being a lucky thing that happened. It was helpful to the story at the end of the day.
What's really fun about the film is how much your real life becomes blurred with the mockumentary element -- it becomes clear at a certain point that there's no way this can be real, but for a second you almost had me.
Good! I think when it gets really confusing is when all of a sudden I'm on a talk show doing a karate demonstration. I think you're like, 'Wait a minute...' Because that is real, I really did go on a talk show without any explanation and just did a karate demonstration, and I also went to the Teen Choice Awards [in a karate gi] without any explanation. So a lot of it is real, but it gets kind of confusing.
So when you made those media appearances over the years in this karate outfit, those were all a part of this long game you were playing?
Yes -- to the bemusement of my publicist and the publicists at Lionsgate. I was supposed to be promoting Employee of the Month and I was just using all those opportunities to make my movie. [Laughs] Because the production value's so huge I couldn't turn it down. You have all these huge monster shows that we could get, so...
Tom Arnold recently said that he thought that pulling all these actor friends together for Brother's Justice may not have been possible if everyone had been at the place where they would have liked to be in their careers.
I would have definitely agreed with that a month ago, but I'm making another movie in June and it turns out all those people, who are now gigantic stars, are still willing to come do a week. But I would have said the same thing. Clearly, [Bradley] Cooper's in a drastically different position mid-film than he is at the end of the film; even Favreau, he'd just started directing Iron Man. He was in prep. There's no way you could get an hour of his time now, he's just too busy. So in some ways yes, but then in other ways... like in the new movie we're making, Cooper's back and Tom's back, Koechner's back. All these people are back.
That scene with Favreau in his Iron Man production office, all I could think was, 'How many geeks would kill to be inside this office?' with all of the production info and art on the walls in plain sight.
To unblur everything in the background! [Laughs] It is a very cool production office, and everyone that was on that movie was the same crew we had on Zathura, all these great guys we knew really well. They had the hanger where they used to keep the Spruce Goose, it was the most gigantic sound stage you've ever seen.
Was it difficult to get clearance to shoot there?
That's why we blurred everything in the background, but we had tons of conversations about, do we just go fair use? Can we make the claim that this is a legit documentary, because so much of it is real and so much of it is real conversations? Like, Favreau and my stuff is quite real; we had this movie come out that didn't do well, and he is friends with Vince [Vaughn], and I am threatened by Vince -- all these little things are coming out... we felt like we could make a case for it, but ultimately we ended up paying for everything, getting the rights to everything because we just didn't want to end up in court. But I think we could have made a pretty good argument. Because also, at the end of the day, had any one of those people said, 'Yeah, I'll pay for Brother's Justice,' we would have made it. We all agreed that had someone really wanted to do it we would absolutely have done it.
Have you ever seriously pitched Brother's Justice to anyone?
No. Well, that's not true. We pitched a couple of people but we didn't tell them that I knew it was a bad idea. It was just like, 'Hey, we're making a making-of, from beginning to end' and those people didn't end up in the movie. But a couple of people heard the actual pitch straight and just had to be kind about it. But then that sort of gets sad because those people are trying to be nice to me because they like me.
Are those like the interviews we see in the beginning, when you go to your lawyer and your agent, who seem to not be in on the joke?
Yes, and we had about ten more of those pitches but it just got monotonous. We filmed this whole thing with Seth Green that was one of my favorite parts of the movie, he was outstandingly funny. But story-wise, once I wasn't fighting Chuck Norris it didn't fit any longer.
I'm pretty disappointed that didn't happen, by the way. My big Chuck Norris movie was Sidekicks.
Wait, Sidekicks?
The one with Jonathan Brandis!
You know what, I got off the Chuck Norris train probably... one of my favorite movies as a kid was Breaker! Breaker!, which was Chuck Norris driving around in a four-wheel drive van beating people up. That combined two of my favorite things, off-roading and karate. My brother and I probably saw that movie 15 times. But you know, I did some research on Chuck as we were doing the movie; as a kid I was like, 'Oh, he's a NINE-time black belt champion!' But listen: What I found out in my research was that all of those championships were no-contact karate.
No.
Yes! It's fucking dancing. It's like a dance-off. A karate-off.
Dax, you have to stop shattering my Chuck Norris dreams.
OK. I'm not here to destroy legends.
Back to Brother's Justice; what are your tips for getting a movie made in Hollywood?
I'm of the opinion that the technology is in a place where there's really no excuse not to just make your movie. We shot this entire movie for absolutely nothing; I don't want to say the real number because of the people who bought it, but it was almost literally nothing. You get a couple lavs and a camera dude, and there's no reason not to make a movie. The technology's come so far, even from when we started; you can see in the third act it starts looking a lot better and that's just because we started on a Panasonic P2 and then as we came back to shoot we had a much better camera. But anyone has access to 5Ds and 7Ds and 60Ds, and it can absolutely be done. You've got to use your friends' houses and your friends' cars and your shit... exploring the route of getting that magic meeting where you pitch some high level exec and they get excited and green light it - you have movies, not to be fatalistic about the industry, but you have movies with great writers and big stars and directors attached at studios that aren't getting made. They're making so few movies that you really just have to make it. It's going to be the only way you end up getting work. I don't believe anyone's going to really go out on a limb and just throw millions of dollars on someone that's not been proven. They're going to have to show somebody something at some point.
Was that what this film was for you, your calling card to show people what you can do as a filmmaker?
Oh, absolutely. I'm now directing a movie with a drastically higher budget this summer based solely on the fact that I proved that I could maintain a tone throughout a movie. Especially over the course of a few years with a lot of different elements; there are tons of issues and tons of mistakes and shittiness about the movie, but there's also a pretty fucking even tone from beginning to end, and a lot of different actors with a lot of different clout. The fact that I just did that was enough to make people go, 'We can trust him with more money.' So yeah, I had to do that. If I had not just shot something, I would be in meetings explaining how much I know about lenses and shots and movies. It would have taken a leap of faith on someone's part.
The film seems to cover a period of about 2006-2009; I'm curious, why doesn't Kristen [Bell] make an appearance?
We had shot the first and second act prior to Kristen being in my life, so by the time we shot the third act there was really no place for her. But she is the star of the movie I'm directing in June.
Can you tell me more about that project?
It's currently called Outrun, I don't know if that will stay; it's like a Sundance version of Smokey and the Bandit, a car chase movie. A low-budget car chase movie. All my friends are in it, all of the same group of guys who were in Brother's Justice are in it.
Did Tom have to lobby for a bigger part, as he does in Brother's Justice?
He didn't lobby, but he does have a bigger part. He probably, actually, has the best part in Outrun. He's certainly the most lovable character in it.
There's another of your projects mentioned in the film: Get 'Em Wet, the hot tub salesman movie you were to do with Will Arnett. There's a moment in the film where you take off for North Carolina to finish the script. Whatever happened?
That is a project that [Will] Arnett and I pitched and Paramount bought, and we were going to make. And then Let's Go to Prison came out and made nine dollars and they said, 'I don't know if we want to be in the Dax and Will combo business.' So it never got made. And I really would go to Asheville, North Carolina to do rewrites. That's kind of my favorite place to go.
What's in Asheville that makes it such a special place for you?
Waffle House, The Biltmore House... I went there as a kid and just kind of fell in love with it, and I like to go back there when I can. In fact, they're shooting Hunger Games in Asheville. I'm so jealous!
Oh my God. Those are the magic words. I'm sort of obsessed with The Hunger Games.
Oh, we're super obsessed! And Josh Hutcherson was in Zathura so I've been friends with him since he was 13 and really kept up that friendship. I just went to Bob's Big Boy with him a couple of weeks ago. I think he has the best role; I mean, Peeta's the greatest.
So you've read all of the books in the series?
Well, the funny thing about the books is that Kristen had read them and was obsessed, and she kept explaining them to me. I'm like, 'Mama, that sounds terrible.' Post-apocalyptic girl fighting? That sounds so bad. And finally she was like, 'If I read it to you, will you listen?' I said, 'Yeah, of course.' So she read it out loud to me and I loved it -- both because she was reading to me and because I loved the book.
You both have to figure out a way to get cast in that movie.
We want KB to play -- [aside] honey, what was it?
[In background] Kristen Bell: Johanna Mason.
Johanna Mason. Yes, KB is hell bent on getting that role. So we've got to start a groundswell!
What about you, Dax?
I think I'm too old to be in the movie!
I'm thinking Cinna could be a good part for you.
Cinna? The dresser. I'd have to femme it up a little bit? OK. Actually, KB did go and she met with the writer. She got a hold of the people and really chased it down. She's obsessed.
The novelist Suzanne Collins or the screenwriter?
[Aside] Suzanne Collins, you didn't meet her did you?
No, she met Billy Ray.
Billy Ray! Fingers crossed for that to happen. Well, I only have time for one more question so I'll bring it back to Brother's Justice. Here's one last burning question: Does Bradley Cooper actually know Brazilian jujitsu and does he take it that seriously?
He doesn't, but wasn't he very convincing? Most people who see it think Cooper knows jujitsu.
You really sold that arm lock.
Now, the guy who beats me up in the movie, Steve DiCastro, he legit is a black belt in jujitsu. And he is one tough son of a bitch. He really broke my rib in real life! I was really fucked up when I left that day of shooting. My neck was all chafed from where he was strangling me with my gi. I passed out during it -- he choked me and thought I was fake-tapping out but I really passed out. [Pause] But that guy is now stunt coordinator in my car chase movie!