It's a hoot, but quite the dynamic one: Teaming once again with director Michael Winterbottom (who last collaborated with them on the great, underseen 2005 comedy Tristram Shandy: A Cock and Bull Story), Brydon and Coogan make perfect comic and emotional foils -- Brydon for Coogan's stuffy, self-aware preening; Coogan for Brydon's innocent, family-man charms. Their five-week drive strains the bonds of friendship only to restore them through both hilarious and poignant means -- not to mention some extraordinary-looking gourmet cuisine. They discussed their journey (as well as some of this year's biggest summer movies) with Movieline at the recent Tribeca Film Festival, where The Trip had its US premiere.
You two have previous experience with Michael Winterbottom, but I imagine it was a little different going on the road together and generally improv-ing for five weeks. How did this whole thing work?
RB: He just gets on with it, doesn't he?
SC: He doesn't spend a long time deconstructing scenes or anything like that.
RB: Subtext!
SC: It's made me sort of averse to that sort of direction now -- people talking too much, and you're going, "Oh, let's just do it, for Christ's sake." He gets on with it. It sounds very simple, but he runs at something with enough momentum and conviction while having faith in it. And he's skilled.
RB: He's not just gotten into it!
SC: He has faith in his own ability, but he's not really cocky.
RB: Plus he has faith in the actors he's employed. I think he says, "These are the actors I've hired, so..."
SC: I'm eternally grateful to Michael Winterbottom, because he, as a director, knows what a lot of actors are sort of insecure about: They think that directors are people who only see them for what their last piece of work was. And they can't see beyond that. With me, certainly -- and with Rob -- he thought there was more potential to what we did and even we did, perhaps, which is not usually the case. Usually people think you're as god as the last thing they saw you do. He thinks you're potentially better than the last thing he saw you do. He sees something else in there. Instead of going, "That's what you do," he says, "I can do something with that and -- make it more."
That's interesting in this case in particular, where the story is partly about the long shadow of one's career over one's future.
RB: Your reputation, your career, your perception -- how you're perceived by the public. Yes, I find that quite interesting to play with.
SC: Michael is a friend, as well. He's a good friend, and I trust him, and I quite like the idea of playing things that would normally make me insecure. Working with him helps me exorcise certain things and makes me feel stronger. As an individual, working with him makes me feel I have more ownership of my life.
That said, are you worried you're going to be asked to do your dueling Michael Caines for the rest of your lives?
SC: Well, people always come up to me and ask me to say, "A ha!" [Alan Partridge's catch phrase] That's been happening for 20 years. So it'll mark a change from that.
RB: That's what happens: If you're in something that's a hit, people ask you [about it]. I'm the same! I mean, actors are fans as well. I understand when someone asks something, because I'd do the same. If I met Michael Richards at the height of Seinfeld, I'd have gotten a kick if he'd gone "G-g-g-g-g..." You know, that thing he did. It's just human nature. If you're putting stuff out there, and you want people to like it, you can't then get all uppity and tell you they like it. That's fine! That's fine, it's great. It's a good thing. You're connecting with people. That's what life's about! It's nice. It can be annoying if you're in the queue for something, when you're chatting with someone else. But it's a good thing! It's great! It means you're connecting. Most stuff that's filmed doesn't connect with people; there's so much stuff out there that doesn't strike a chord with anybody.
SC: There are lots of people who have hugely commercially successful stuff, and I find that people who sort of have these big commercial hits are successful but slightly forgettable. In five years' time people don't remember what was number one at the box office unless it's an Academy Award-winner. The people who do love what you do, I find, appreciate that you care about what you do and that you like it. It's like a contract. I feel like I have a contract with the people who like the stuff I do, and I don't want to disappoint them. There's a certain kind of loyalty there -- a mutual respect. And I think that you meddle with that at your peril.
How insecure are each of you in real life? It's hard to know where real life ends and the "characters" Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon begin.
SC: On one level, I'm a lot more secure than I appear in The Trip, and things don't bother me as much as they do in The Trip. But things do bother me sometimes. I get a little anxious about the tiny things now and then. But in the great scheme of things, no. You get a little irritated with certain people. There are certain irritations with other people in the industry that can be... an irritation. But in the grand scheme of things, it's like being annoyed with not being able to find a parking meter.
I'm thinking of the dream sequences -- or I guess nightmares -- in particular.
SC: Oh, well I don't think everybody thinks I'm a C-U-N-T.
RB: [to Coogan] I think he's thinking more of the Ben Stiller sequence.
Both of them, really.
SC: Well, the thing is that when you're young, you want to be approved of and liked. When you get older, you get comfortable with who you are both as an individual and as a performer. I know certain sectors of people will never like what I do, and that's OK! I don't want to convince those people.
RB: Things don't matter as much when you get older. I'll make jokes now about my skin, for example, but I wouldn't have done that in the past. I would have been sensitive about my [acne-] scarred skin. And if anybody had brought it up, I would have thought they were having a little go at me. But now, I go, "Well, yeah. It's not great skin. There it is! That's who I am." And so stuff like the bit about wanting to work with all those different directors, Ben Stiller saying this, that or the other... [To Coogan] Perhaps I'm speaking for you, now, but if it were me in that scene -- and it could have been -- then I would say, "Well, yes, I would love if all those directors wanted to work with me." And then if it appeared they did not want to work with me? That's OK! That's where I am. One can have a great career -- and I consider myself to have a great career in England. I'm so lucky. But I think we're happy to put our shortcomings out there because we're of an age where we go... [Shrugs] "Yeah."
SC: It's all a bonus. It's all a bonus. I have a happy, healthy approach to the projects I'm pursuing. I've got faith in them. I think they're going to be good, otherwise I wouldn't be pursuing them. And yes, if I can get the right kind of work in America, I'd love to be doing it. There is a part of me that genuinely thinks, "I'd love to have done all the parts that Michael Sheen's done."
RB: Well, of course. That's only human.
SC: But! But I don't wake up in the night sweating and thinking about it.
RB: Like you do in The Trip.
SC: I love Michael Sheen. He's a lovely man and a wonderful actor. Genuinely. I actually think he's really great. There's others whom I won't mention who I don't think are so great. So... Anyway. I'm not just being nice.
Why hold back now?
SC: Oh, you know. But in The Trip, I'm saying, "I've got to have a career in America." The actual fact is that I try to take a holistic approach: Never peaking means that you're always on an upward slope. The positive thing about not being known in America is that I've still got a slight underground quality. So the cool people in Manhattan like me. There aren't a lot of them, but it's a nice feeling.
There is a certain poignancy in The Trip as well -- say, Steve mock-eulogizing Rob at the graveyard, or...
RB: Oh, that's one of my favorites. The eulogy. We worked very well together in that scene.
SC: They cut out a line in the movie, after I did the eulogy.
RB: What line?
SC: "I think if you were to die before me, it would probably be murder."
RB: That's not in the film?
SC: No.
RB: That's a great line!
SC: Instead you say, "Can I do a eulogy?" And I say, "No. I want it to be a surprise." And then, in the TV version, he says, ""I think if you were to die before me, it would probably be murder."
RB: I said that.
SC: But that's not in the movie.
RB: [To me] Does he leap over the fence in the end?
I don't remember that.
SC: Do I fall in the river?
You do fall in the river.
RB: But not the leap over the fence. We should say something to Michael! Well, it's too late now. But he should put it back in.
SC: There are always so many choices. At least I fall into the river, which is the answer to my aggressive eulogy.
RB: But what I like in the eulogy is that sometimes you just have to revert to comic prototypes in a way. I smile when he's saying things about me. He's being very dismissive, but then when he says a nice thing, he's damning me with faint praise. I like doing that. It's like very basic children's comedy, and I'm quite pleased with it. I like it a lot.
SC: Yeah, it's a nice scene.
What about the duet on [ABBA's] "The Winner Takes it All"? Was that an organic improv moment? I can only imagine the music-clearance headaches afterward.
RB: That was something that just came up.
SC: I'm sure we talked about it not on camera. I'm sure we did. I really like that song; it's my favorite ABBA song. I think I must have brought it up with you.
RB: Well, weren't we doing two duets in the film?
SC: Yeah, and I said, "It might be too much to do both." But we kept both in.
RB: I'm glad we did. I like the singing in the car.
SC: I hate the fact that you don't actually do that first octave.
RB: [To me] Yeah, I didn't do the first octave. It's a cheat.
SC: It's a cheat! He didn't do a full octave, because the first one he does--
RB: I do think I have more range than you, though, still.
SC: You forgot about the first octave. It's about two-thirds of an octave.
RB: I accept it, but I still think I've got a wider singing range than you. I can't do three octaves, I'll give you that. But I still think I can do more than you.
The Trip opens Friday in limited release and arrives on VOD on June 22 through IFC. Check out the trailer here.