On the one hand, there's nothing Malcolm McDowell can tell you about A Clockwork Orange that he hasn't told someone else before. The 1971 Stanley Kubrick classic -- adapted from Anthony Burgess's novel about a young hooligan caught up in a dystopic society's attempts to cure "ultraviolence" -- has pretty much been parsed, discussed, annotated and mythologized down to atomic bits over the last four decades, most often with its star McDowell leading the way. On the other hand, it's hard to resist a storyteller so gracious and enthusiastic that you want to forget everything you know just to learn it all over again.
But that's McDowell, with whom Movieline spoke at the tail end of his press tour supporting Clockwork Orange's 40th anniversary Blu-ray, which arrives on shelves May 31. (A companion box set, the 10-disc Stanley Kubrick Essential Collection, will debut the same day.) Having quickly established the reality of our Orange saturation, it seemed worthwhile to move on to a range of other milestones of the 66-year-old actor's career -- his three films playing Mick Travis for legendary British director Lindsay Anderson, his struggle to make the best of the infamously depraved but "nearly, nearly good" Caligula, his time sharing a set with Sir Laurence Olivier, and more.
So this is the end of the line for the Clockwork Orange press tour, which has taken you to New York, Los Angeles...
Los Angeles, Cannes, London, and this is it. There's a day of press tomorrow, and then I'm finished. For a while. Until the next anniversary.
Did you even do this much press for the film when it opened in 1971?
No. Nowhere near. That's what I was laughing about! This is ridiculous! Why do people care about this? I'm just amazed. But they love it. The kids love it. Every generations seems to find this movie -- especially kids going to college. They put up the posters and just really make it their own. It's just fantastic.
It does keep the legacy alive, but do you think these younger fans actually get it? The themes, the satire, the darkness, etc?
Probably not. But they get that it's anti-establishment, it's anti-Big Brother. If they get that, then you're halfway there. That's good. And also, they love the look and they love the language. It's one of the most quoted movies I've ever done. Just the language alone: "Viddy well, viddy well," all that stuff.
Should we even be here, though? After 40 years and now this entire press tour, what's left for you to say or know about A Clockwork Orange?
Well, look: I take this seriously, talking to people like you. It's your job and it's my job to make it interesting, so I try to give as much energy as I do the first interview of the day. I try to tell the stories in an interesting way and [as] something that's fun for me as well. So I may alter them slightly just to keep myself interested. But of course there's nothing that I haven't been asked. It's been 40 years; it's been pretty much uncovered by now. But it's such a great movie, and I feel like I'm a curator of the movie -- I can pass on the knowledge of it for the next generation or whatever, and try and let people know how we did some things. I feel like that's my responsibility because Stanley's no longer here to do it.
Kubrick probably wouldn't be doing it anyway; after a certain age, he tended to let his work speak for itself. Is there something to be said for that technique?
You can do that for so long, but you can't tell me that people aren't curious, because they are. It's one of the most iconic films ever made. There are, of course, other iconic films of that period, certainly, but not all are invited to the Cannes Film Festival to play in front of 600 people and [have] yet another DVD/Blu-ray edition and all that. It's really remarkable. The only other one I can really think of is Lawrence of Arabia, but that's a totally different genre -- a different kind of movie altogether. But this has always been on the cutting edge.
And I wonder, "Why do the kids love it today?" It's no longer the revolutionary look it once was. It's no longer shocking in terms of the violence or anything else. But I do think the legacy is the political one. And basically, at the end of the day, what is the film about? To me it's about the freedom of man to choose whether he's immoral or moral. That's what the whole thing boils down to. For me, anyway.
I was browsing your profile page on IMDB, which can be notoriously unreliable, but--
I've never been on my site there.
Well, it lists 202 roles in 47 years. Some are voice parts in animation or video games, others are TV guest spots, but still. Even if we cut it down to 150 with film and TV--
Yeah, I think I've done around 120 or 130 films.
Right. There are not of actors in that company.
There are not a lot of actors that are still working at my age. I'm not really playing grandfathers, you know? I guess that's one of the lucky things: I get these terrific, edgy parts, whether it's killing Captain Kirk or whatever. A really big, juicy heavy. It's such a fun thing to play, and you can relish it and love it. I've been really lucky like that. I mean, the part on Entourage... He's such a bastard, but such a delicious one. And anyone who can best Ari has got to be a great character. I go back in the beginning of June and shoot the last one, which will be rather sad, honestly. I think it's one of the best-written comedies -- for me, certainly up there with Seinfeld and The Larry Sanders Show.
Considering you've been talking about playing Alex for decades now, is there a role among those 120 or 130 films you feel might have slipped through the cracks or deserves some attention of its own?
There's a few of those, but the truth is I never look back. My most exciting role is the next one.
Well put. Is there one you'd do over?
No. There really isn't one I'd want to revisit. Also, you know, the roles when I was young... I can't play those anymore. It's such a privilege to play something -- especially on a film -- that's so indelible. It's for eternity. It's gone out there in this weird space. In a way , you don't want to touch it. That's it. Whether it's good or bad, that's it. And a lot of it is not very good. A lot of it's shit. But it doesn't matter. That's the way it was. Not everything can be great. We can't make more than one Clockwork Orange in our lifetime. That's evident. Just to be part of film history for doing one is a great privilege, really.
And let's not forget the Mick Travis films. Those hold up.
They're amazing. Lindsay Anderson (pictured above with McDowell) is one of the greatest directors I ever worked with -- certainly on par with Kubrick. He was a genius, to me. if...., O Lucky Man! and Brittania Hospital are three absolutely great movies that should be seen by anyone who's even vaguely interested in film. Which is, of course, is our art form. Yours and mine. Even though we're generations apart, that's the art form that we've invented in the last century. And that's it. It compasses everything -- music, paint, photography, everything -- in one art form, and it's a very special art form.
O Lucky Man! has its own 40th anniversary coming up in a couple years, right?
Yeah, and I probably will be here talking to you about that.
It deserves it!
It does. It does. It's a great film. Lindsay Anderson is great. Did they happen to send you a copy of Never Apologize [McDowell's one-man play/appreciation of Anderson]?
Indeed they did.
Well, that really... I mean, it broke my heart, because a lot of people didn't really know who Lindsay Anderson was. So when I was asked by the Edinburgh Festival if I'd introduce some of his movies there -- a retrospective for him that was basically for me, because I did most of them -- I said off the top of my head, "I'll do better than that. I'll do a show about him. A one-man show. I'll get up and tell what it was like, what he was like, what a genius he was." And of course it became something else. I managed to get the diaries and the letters that he wrote me and others -- the secret thoughts -- and try and tell people and give them this document of how these movies were made. How we did it. And the way that he was like such an Oxford don; he was such a teacher. He was an amazing man, an amusing man. He could also be very prickly, too; he had a hell of a temper. But it was always fun with him. It was amazing just to be around him and listen to him. He was an incredible guy. Incredible.
There's another infamous film of yours whose recent anniversary went relatively unheralded: Caligula. What's your relationship with that movie's legacy, legend and mythology today?
[Pauses] Well, look: I feel it's a film that is nearly, nearly good. There's a film in there somewhere that's dying to come out, and it never quite did. And for whatever reason -- whether it was the greed of the producers or... I don't know. Of course, they added all this porn stuff. But you know, OK. They paid for it; I guess they can do whatever they want with it. It was sort of a betrayal to us actors, but I suppose that's being a little bit naïve. But the thing was, it was a hell of a shoot. It was hard work, and as far as my own work goes, I was reasonably pleased. I mean, I can't say it was a great success based on everything, because it wasn't. But there are some wonderful things in it.
And it was great for me to not only work with Helen Mirren again -- whom I adore and love -- but with John Gielgud and Peter O'Toole. Two really incredible actors -- incredible talent. John Gielgud! I got to work with Gielgud, [Ralph] Richardson and [Laurence] Olivier -- three of the greatest actors who have ever lived. And when you think they were contemporaries... I mean, how long have actors been around? Certainly since the Greeks, probably before. So that's two and a half thousand years, and you've got these three in the same generation? That was lightning striking three times.
What did they impart to you? Or, perhaps, what do you think you took away from working with them?
I just loved their individuality. They were all completely different -- in style in everything else. It just shows you that great acting is really marching to your own drum and not being affected by what other people are doing. Just do your thing -- in the character, of course. But Gielgud was a charming, charming man -- and very funny. One of the funniest, most beautiful men, with of course this extraordinary voice. He came to stay with me in two weeks in Rome when we were shooting Caligula -- to save his per diem -- and I was so thrilled.
And of course Olivier is the only actor I've ever worked with where the hairs on the back of my neck stood up when he came into a room on set and did his thing. I was astounded -- frightened almost. It was just shocking. I was doing this scene with Alan Bates, and Alan felt the same thing. He said, "Did you feel that power? We're not even in the same league!" I went, "You can say that again!" But it was great. And I loved Alan Bates, too. He was a wonderful actor.
What movie was that?
It was called The Collection. It was made for television. It was a four-hander: Alan, Olivier, myself, Helen Mirren. Four people in a Pinter play called The Collection. It's very good. I think you can -- or you could -- get it on video. It's worth a look just for Olivier. In the end? When he comes back? Oh, it's fantastic.
Is there a similar dynamic at work on a fraught set like Caligula? Did you ever turn to Gielgud and say, "What the hell are we doing here?"
Are you kidding? Like every day. But at the end of the day, I have a contract to do the part the best way I possibly can. Gore Vidal yanked his name off it, and well, that was it. He can do whatever he wants. I couldn't take my name off it because it's my face, and it would be ridiculous. So I soldiered on and did the best I could, of course. It was weird, because then I went straight into a film in Hollywood after that called Time After Time, which is a charming sort of science fiction/romance film.
Of course. You played H.G. Wells!
H.G. Wells chasing Jack the Ripper, beautifully played by David Warner. A year later I'm looking in a magazine or whatever, and they've got the best 10 and worst 10 movies of the year, and I was in both lists. And I said, "Now that is the life of an actor." You should take risks -- that's what it's about. I've always taken risks as an actor. I really don't care what people think. If you do that, then you're limiting yourself, always, to the same damn thing. And if you take risks and do something like Caligula -- and it is a risk -- then hey. At the end of the day, it's worth it.
[Top photo credits (L-R): Warner Bros.; Getty Images]