To hear Ron Howard tell it, the key element of his new film The Dilemma is surprise: Tonal twists from comedy to thriller to drama and pathos back again, frequently without warning and with little indication of which character will turn up where -- or how or why they'll do it. Perhaps it was inevitable, then, that I walked into a chat with the filmmaker to find his younger brother, the actor (and Ron Howard stock player) Clint Howard would be joining. Score!
After all, here you've got around 100 years of combined Hollywood experience, a couple guys who have seen and done it all: Won an Oscar? Check. Work experience with Uwe Boll? Check. Driven the ski boat that helped coin "jump the shark"? Check. Witnessed more industry trends and developments than any sibling pair since Harry and Jack Warner? Check. (Sorry, Weinsteins! It's not like Harvey was on The Andy Griffith Show and Bob was on Gentle Ben or anything.) I mean, in one year in the early '80s, these guys gave us Night Shift and Evilspeak. This is serious.
Maybe too serious, in fact. Talking about The Dilemma with the Howards does present a... dilemma, for better or worse: The tale of best friends Ronnie (Vince Vaughn) and Nick (Kevin James) and the secrets that wedge their ways between them -- starting with Ronnie witnessing (and soon stalking) the adulterous acts of Nick's wife (Winona Ryder) -- is ambitious but ultimately minor Howard. But it's still the work of a guy clearly taking chances in a movie for adults that doesn't shove 3-D down your gullet, and you soon come to deeply appreciate the guys in tandem. As the conversation weaves from improv techniques to Ryder's transcendence to what the hell is really happening with a big-screen adaptation of Arrested Development (which the elder Howard brother co-produced and narrated), the easiest impression to take from Ron and Clint Howard together is a resilient, almost phenomenal sincerity. And so! It goes like this:
I want to start the way the movie starts and just ask point blank: How well can you really know somebody?
CLINT HOWARD: No, I don't think you can know somebody -- even a spouse. I think there are dark place in peoples' minds or ideas that float around in peoples' heads that the closest people will never know about.
RON HOWARD: I agree, but I think you can -- with near certainty -- get close enough to somebody to know what they will do in a very reliable way. Maybe not in the most extreme circumstance, but I think I could tell you pretty well how Clint would react to this, that or the other. Or my wife Cheryl.
CH: Well, you've got a better marriage than I have. I can't figure out my wife at all.
Let's talk about the tone, especially as it alludes to the idea of knowing somebody. There are secrets being kept from the audience as well as the individual characters. How did these dynamics evolve for you along the way, and how do you think you did?
RH: Well, it was a good strong script by Allan Loeb. I didn't develop it; Brian Grazer, my partner at Imagine, it was his idea. And in fact, it was born from an idea when he saw a woman with red hair walking down the street being kind of affectionate -- and my wife Cheryl has red hair, shoulder-length red hair. And he spotted her and said, "Maybe that could be Cheryl?" But this person was being very affectionate to a big buff guy who was definitely not me. Brian got a little worried about it, but when he saw the woman turn, he saw it wasn't Cheryl. And so he told me about it, and we had a laugh.
Then he started mentioning that to other people, and it always started off a round of pretty spirited conversation. He mentioned that to Vince Vaughn, and together they cooked up this movie. They brought in Allan Loeb, really developed it on their own. I knew about it -- it was there at Imagine -- and when I read it, I really wanted it. My antenna was tuned to try to find a kind of contemporary, unusual, edgier sort of comedy because I'd had a really good experience working in and around Arrested Development. So a couple of years ago, it reminded me that I really missed directing comedy -- people working toward generating laughs. And yet I didn't want it to just feel, sound, echo other comedies that I'd done, [but] other tones.
Vaughn's character, Ronnie, embodies many of those tones; you do have to figure him out. Who is this guy?
RH: He's a wonderful guy; he thinks in his own unique way. He's one of those guys who kind of says and does the inappropriate, kind of extreme thing, but it's always from a place of trying to achieve something that makes sense. Even to us, which is why he can attract someone as grounded, intelligent and lovely as Jennifer Connelly. He's on the brink of actually popping the question. He's this elusive guy who's had a gambling problem at one point in life, but things are looking really good. He's really at this point of turning a corner in a lot of ways. So it's a story of this particular person having the rug pulled completely out from under him. It's not really, "What would you do?" It's, "What would this guy do? What does it mean to him and his emotional stability? How does he respond?" And of course we want to deal with it in a comedic way, but we found that the more honest we were about it all, and the more truthful it seemed, that the funnier the spikes were.
How did you develop that character with Vince Vaughn? How did he evolve?
RH: Well, Vince is a fascinating guy -- incredibly talented. He's not really a comic. He's not a guy who thinks only about how to be funny. He really thinks in terms of ideas and the world around him. And he's got a really particular, unique point of view about things. But it's fun! It's smart, it's interesting. And so talking about this idea and how it might unfold turned out to be very creative, and it did keep evolving. But all the other actors joined in -- not only in the rehearsal process, but also in the filming. It's not like scenes would entirely change, but we would do the scripted scenes, and I would really invite these free takes. And people could put their own stamps on it whether it was comedy or even in some of the more emotional, dramatic scenes where people like Jennifer Connelly and Winona Ryder made huge contributions by bringing even more truth to their characters. Clint's scenes with Vince were largely improvised. Weren't they?
CH: Well, you had warned me -- well, not so much warned me -- but said the plan was to do a lot of improvising. And one of the reasons why I think Ron sort of asked me to do this part was because he honestly trusts me and understands I'm willing to stand there toe-to-toe with anybody and give it my best shot. I've been doing this a long time, and I think he had confidence in me that I wouldn't fold under pressure. So we did the scene scripted, and then we started playing. I've had some luck in my life acting with improvisational actors, and I felt such a great vibe with Vince. I think he felt the same way because he gave me stuff, and I bounced stuff off him. When he realized I could play ball with him, then we started playing.
That's interesting. How or with whom did you hone your improv chops?
CH: It's not so much honing my chops. It's just getting the opportunity, like on the Austin Powers movies. That was pure improvisational inspiration from Mike [Myers] and Jay Roach, the director. And also [Adam] Sandler. I've had the good fortune a few times of working with Camp Sandler. Those guys certainly understand filmmaking, but they also understand finding the surprises through improvising. And another thing is working on low-budget movies. You can take more chances to a degree. When you're working on a movie like this which is a fairly big-budget piece of work, and there's a lot at stake, actors tend to want to go in there and throw strikes. On the small little independent movies, you feel a little more comfortable and confident that you can play around a little bit. So I've had plenty of experience on the smaller movies getting to improvise.
How did that interactivity among the actors inform Nick, played by Kevin James?
RH: Because the Nick character was born of Brian Grazer saying, "What would I do if I saw the wife of my best friend and business partner cheating?", the relationship is a little bit... You know, Brian's a little emotional, mercurial, his mind moves quickly from subject to subject and possibility to possibility. I'm a little more dug in, myopic, and quietly wound up and emotional about what I'm doing. So the characters reflected that in a way. This is not a classic Kevin James character in that Vince is the one who's more physically funny in the movie. And Kevin is driving an idea, and the comedy kind of comes out of that anxiety -- the sense that this is a really bright guy at a really emotionally vulnerable time. Kevin really loved that about the script. He signed on, and it was for the opportunity to stretch himself a little bit. This was a chance to work with Vince and a chance to have a different role in a modern comedy. He gets his laughs and stuff, but he also creates some nice emotional moments. He really is proud of that.
Winona Ryder is kind of a revelation here -- maybe the story of the film. How did she get involved?
RH: She came in to meet on it. I was interested in meeting her, but I was honestly thinking of her more for the Jennifer Connelly role -- the possibility of Vince's would-be fiancée. I met her, and in all honesty -- this kind of shows Vince's out-of-the-box thinking -- he said, "Wow. I wonder what she would be like as Geneva," the one who goes head-to-head [with Vaughn's character]. The character was written in kind of an ice-queen sort of a way, and I immediately thought, "That would be so interesting -- her sensitivity and vulnerability and her dramatic chops. I'll bet that might be very interesting." I actually had her come in and do some scenes with Vince -- basically, an audition.
CH: I'll tell you: When she digs in with Vince at this turning point in the picture -- and I've loved Winona and her performances -- she is so good. At the diner?
RH: That head-to-head scene.
CH: The head-to-head scene! She makes a turn that is so cool. It was like, "Obviously, this was a good choice."
RH: She came in and easily convinced us that she had what it takes to surprise audiences. And the other thing: The key word there is probably "surprise." It's great to have all these comedy stars. I, as a director, wanted to create as many twists and turns as I could in the plot, but also surprise you with the casting: Winona in that role. Channing Tatum playing this kind of out-of-control Zip character -- tattooed crazy guy. Queen Latifah playing this automobile executive. These were casting choices I wanted to make to surprise the audience.
**What do you make of the shift in Hollywood where films with relatively small budgets and expanded creative freedom -- take The Social Network or Black Swan -- are taking over the conversation as well as the box-office? Where do you see this trend going, and how will it affect what both of you do? **
CH: The only sad part about studio business sort of contracting is that there are less roles for sort of character actors like me -- when, for instance, Warner Bros. is only making six or seven movies a year when they used to make 12. The same can be said for all the studios. That's basically 10 or 12 less parts per movie that are available for guys like me. But that doesn't mean that the business is shrinking; it's just changing. The studio pictures are certainly contracting; there are certainly less. But there are other outlets. There are the Uwe Bolls of the world and the cable outlets of the world that are offering actors like myself an opportunity to go do material. I mean, listen: My cup of tea is old-school movies -- movies with stories, like this one. But I also understand that it's changing. And as an actor -- or even as a person in the industry -- if you're unwilling to change, you're just going to get swamped. You've got to be flexible, and you've got to go with the flow. That's what I try to do as an actor.
RH: It definitely is changing. The definition and cost of an A-studio movie is shifting, too. First of all, a character-driven story is riskier in their minds. A comedy, slightly less so. Having a movie that would attract this kind of cast, led by Vince and Kevin, gives the studio a little more confidence, and they're willing to invest a bit more in it. But even this probably cost 25 or 30 percent less this year than it might have cost two years ago. So they are enforcing a kind of discipline that everybody has to respond to, and it's probably a very healthy thing.
But you know, I think it's very exciting what's happening, how people are proving over and over again that you actually can make movies for less -- and make really good movies. Thankfully, audiences are showing up. There's nothing better -- nothing better -- for all of us than a film like Black Swan proving to be commercially viable. I mean, as dark and unexpected... And I happened to enjoy it and be really riveted by it. So it's effective to me. But it's not like anything else, and yet it's finding its audience in a significant enough way that companies feel like they can actually make that a business model and rely upon it. True Grit cracking $100 million is great! That's spectacular for people who still want to get out there and take risks with the movies they make.
And of course the movie we want to see this paradigm impact is... the Arrested Development movie. What is really happening with this?
I should give you Mitch's e-mail so you can all swamp him. Mitch Hurwitz and I spoke very recently, and he's working on it. The fact of the matter is that his television company and his television business and recent series with Will Arnett [Running Wilde] was really eating up a bunch of his time. He loved it, but it's not going to go forward. And I think now, he actually has the window to focus on Arrested Development. But you know, it's going to his first feature-directing situation. It's Arrested Development -- something that is precious to him, and he knows there are going to be high expectations. And he won't go forward to meet some kind of release date. He'll go forward when he thinks he has something cool and funny and fresh.
This interview is an edited portion of an Apple Talk conducted on Jan. 13, 2010.
[Top photo of Ron and Clint Howard: WireImage]