Leaving Las Vegas was five years ago. But no matter, Shue Shines Again in Hollow Man.
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Elisabeth Shue's career can be divided into two phases--before Leaving Las Vegas and after Leaving Las Vegas. Growing up in South Orange, New Jersey, with divorced parents--her lawyer father and bank executive mother split when she was nine--and three brothers, Elisabeth had clean-scrubbed good looks that got her the part of a perky salesperson in a series of Burger King commercials, after which she played sweet suburban kids in The Karate Kid and Adventures in Babysitting. When she entered adult-role territory, she still played the sensible good girl (in Cocktail and in Back to the Future II and III). She went slightly edgier to play a driven actress in Soapdish, but she returned to goody-two-shoes parts in The Marrying Man and Heart and Souls. So it was a surprise to everyone when she nailed the dark and extremely challenging role of an emotionally destroyed prostitute in 1995's Leaving Las Vegas. When she didn't win the Oscar for that remarkable performance (Susan Sarandon won that year for Dead Man Walking), there was still every reason to believe that she would now step into the best roles Hollywood had to offer. Instead, she proceeded to star in a series of mediocre misfires (The Trigger Effect, Palmetto, Cousin Bette, Molly), a so-so Woody Allen comedy (Deconstructing Harry) and Phillip Noyce's big-budget, big-screen version of TV's The Saint, which was at best a moderate success. With the big-budget Hollow Man, a special-effects-fueled update of the premise of The Invisible Man that stars Kevin Bacon and is directed by Paul Verhoeven, who has the hits Total Recall and Basic Instinct on his resume, Shue has the chance for a huge audience-pleaser that could accomplish what The Saint should have.
Improbably enough, Shue is studying for her finals at Harvard University when I meet her. She's gone back to finish one last semester so she can get the dual degree in political science and government that she started working towards 19 years ago, first at Wellesly College, then at Harvard. When I meet her in the lobby of the Charles Hotel in Cambridge, Massachusetts, she looks like any other harried senior. Unlike most students, though, she's 36, has a potential summer blockbuster to promote, and has a family--her two-and-a-half-year-old son, Miles, and Davis Guggenheim, her director-husband (Gossip)--waiting for her at home. And unlike any student, she has nearly two decades of Hollywood experience on her resume.
LAWRENCE GROBEL: What made you want to finish up at Harvard?
ELISABETH SHUE: My brain was starting to dry up. In Hollywood, you're fortunate if you get a role where your brain is engaged, but those experiences are rare. I felt I needed to do more with my life. I wanted to be more connected to the world, so that may be there was something I could do to give back.
Q: What would you want to give back?
A: I want to be involved with young people in some way. Teenagers. Because that's the most vulnerable time. I have a fantasy of becoming a teacher one day.
Q: You would give up acting to teach?
A: I see myself at a certain age as not being able to play the kind of parts that would keep me stimulated and I can't imagine my life ending professionally the moment that I've got to go to the plastic surgeon and have my face rearranged.
Q: A lot of older actresses turn to producing and directing.
A: I'm interested in making documentaries. One of the other reasons I'm at Harvard is that I was inspired by my husband's decision to do a documentary on first-time teachers. He's doing it for no money. It's always better to do something that makes you happy. I've watched my husband flower as a person and that made me reassess what I was doing with my life.
Q: Do people recognize you on campus?
A: I don't know. When I was younger it was definitely something I thought about--do they recognize me or not? Now I walk around thinking nobody knows who I am. If you're someone like Julia Roberts, there can be a frenzy, but don't really create a frenzy.
[Laughs]
Q: Do you think by now you should be creating one?
A: No, not at all.
Q: Besides finishing Harvard you also have Hollow Man coming out. What made you want to do it?
A: At first I was a little skeptical of the genre. I was having a tough time finding a part like the ones I played in Molly or Leaving Las Vegas, so I made a firm decision to do a film like Hollow Man. I'd never played a woman who becomes physically heroic.
Q: How did it work, playing opposite an invisible character?
A: It wasn't the kind of special-effects movie where I was going to be acting with nothing in front of me. What's brilliant about this movie is that Kevin was actually there in every scene. I'm looking right into his eyes. For a lot of scenes he'll be taken out [in postproduction], but he had to be there when it was shot because in most of the scenes something is attached to him.
Q: Does he come in and out of invisibility?
A: Once he's invisible, he stays invisible, though he comes in and out of it once when we're trying to bring him back, and then towards the end there's a reaction to a flame thrower--I burn him and that creates a chemical reaction so that he can be seen for the rest of the movie.
Q: Bacon stalks you when he's invisible--how frightening is that?
A: There's also a sexually challenging aspect of our relationship. We had a past relationship and now I'm involved with a fellow scientist, which he doesn't know but finds out.
Q: Do you have sex with the invisible man?
A: We don't actually have sex, but we have sexual moments.
Q: Would you define this as a horror film?
A: It's got some horror moments in it, but it's not horror-horror. There's definitely a lot of blood.
Q: What movie most scared you as a kid?
A: Jaws, because I thought it was real. And The Shining.
Q: What about as an adult?
A: [Laughs] When I was doing the looping for this film I had to turn my head. It's scary. It doesn't become really scary until toward the end, so it's scary in a more psychological way, not just gore-and-blood the whole time.
Q: If you could be invisible, where would you go and what would you do?
A: If I could be invisible, I'd go visit some past boyfriends to see what their lives are like.
Q: How did you like working with Paul Verhoeven?
A: He's an extraordinary director, but he's excruciatingly frustrating at times. He's one of those perfectionists that you read about, and though there were times when I could barely take it, I don't think I would've enjoyed the filming as much without that perfectionist part of him. Paul's also a very affectionate man, much warmer than people think.
Q: Your big moment in the spotlight came when you were Oscar-nominated for your performance in Leaving Las Vegas. Did you assume that by now you'd have made another great film?
A: No, no, no. I did assume things would the a lot easier than they've been. But it's just been a mirror of the way my career's been from the beginning, so for it to have changed would have been strange. My career's never been perfect.
Q: Analyze it.
A: Every film is a crapshoot. It's a mystery when a movie comes together. I've never been able to figure it out. I don't know how I make my choices. The only thing you can do is know there's something about a character that you really want to experience.
Q: Do you ever envy decisions other actresses make?
A: I try every year to figure out what pans I wish I could have done and I'm hard-pressed to figure out what they are. So I don't think I'm missing out on that much.
Q: Let's talk about some of your choices. Do you think your follow-up to Leaving Las Vegas, the indie The Trigger Effect, was unfairly ignored?
A: I admire the director, Dave Koepp, and I feel lucky I got the chance to work with him. Who knows why films don't get attention?
Q: Did you like your performance in Woody Aliens Deconstructing Harry?
A: I feel good about that choice.
Q: Next came Palmetto, which was barely released. What made you want to do that?
A: It was an opportunity to play someone who was insane, ungrounded, wasn't accountable for anything. Plus, I really wanted to work with Woody Harrelson, because I respect him--we were friends before we started working together. So I just dove in and took a risk.
Q: Did you ever share Harrelson's enthusiasm for hemp products?
A: [Laughs] No, I was pregnant at the time. And when you're pregnant you're off in your own world, so he was having one experience and I was having the loner experience.
Q: Didn't they bring in Gina Gershon to play a character that wasn't in the original script after you finished shooting?
A: Yeah, I was only there for three weeks and then they hired Gina--that was too bad. It seemed strange to me. She played Woody's girlfriend. After I left it almost became a different movie.
Q: Were you bitter about this?
A: No, bitterness is so ugly.
Q: So was doing the film a miscalculation?
A: You'll never get me to say that I don't feel good about any of my choices.
Q: Were you disappointed with The Saint, which was your first really big-budget movie since 1990s Back to the Future III?
A: The hard thing about The Saint was that my character was supposed to die, but then they reshot the ending based on tests and she lives. I created the character based on her dying--she would never have been as innocent otherwise. So I didn't have high expectations for that film.
Q: The Saint was Robert Evans's dream for a franchise. Did you deal with him?
A: Not once.
Q: Next came Cousin Bette, in which there was a scene where you and Aden Young had to rub chocolate and whipped cream over each others naked bodies. Your director, Des McAnuff, said you didn't hesitate at all.
A: True. It was fun.
Q: Has nudity ever been an issue for you?
A: Definitely. I would never do nudity just to do nudity. Every time I've shown a part of my hotly, it was integral to the character. I hope. Let's see: Cousin Bette, I was a courtesan. Leaving Las Vegas, I showed a tiny bit in some scenes. Molly, that was a real moment. They were going to hire a body double but I thought I had to do it even though I looked in the mirror and thought, "I'm not really prepared to show my body."
Q: Was it difficult playing an autistic woman in Molly?
A: That was one of the most beautiful experiences of my life. Molly was connected to a simple need to be loved. I connected to that because I was feeling very unsure of myself at that time. There, again, I had to learn that awful, awful, awful lesson, the worst lesson you have to learn. And believe me, I'm human--it hurts. You want everything to be applauded, embraced, accepted and appreciated.
Q: Wait, what's the awful lesson?
A: That it's not about the results. It's about the process. You have to live by char, because if you don't, your whole life becomes a feeling of bitterness. I don't have high expectations anymore. Maybe they've just been beaten out of me.
Q: For which film did you have the least expectations?
A: Leaving Las Vegas. And it was the most acclaimed.
Q: Are you aware that a role like that may never come again?
A: Now I am! I'm painfully aware of it. But it would be greedy of me to expect parts like that all the time.
Q: You've talked of being able to portray that character because of your own painful sexual experiences in the past. How painful were they?
A: They definitely were not as painful as what she experienced, not even close. I was referring to a time in my life when I was much younger and I didn't feel quite worthwhile. I did a lot of acting out sexually to feel worthwhile--the way you use your sexuality as a form of power.
Q: Who taught you about sex: your parents, your brothers or your friends?
A: My friends. And probably my brothers. It makes parents really uncomfortable. I wonder what I'll be like. I'll probably be so open it'll be inappropriate.
Q: You've said that acting helps some neurotic people to finally accept all their personalities. How many personalities do you have?
A: [Laughs] A lot. They're all still in me, but they don't compete for air time as frequently as they once did.
Q: Entertainment Weekly once criticized you for looking too bland, to which you responded, "When they begin to crucify you for the way you look, it makes you neurotic."
A: I guess that adds to your neuroses, but it doesn't dig as deep as when they criticize your ability or your choices.
Q: Are there any recent Oscar-nominated roles that you wish you'd been asked to do?
A: The nominated performances are usually parts for older women that I couldn't have played anyway.
Q: Like Jessica Lange, Meryl Streep and Susan Sarandon, all of whom you've said have inspired you?
A: Meryl almost lives on a different level than the test of us, because she's able to create characters that are unique. Jessica and Susan are just beautifully strong and sensual women. I respect the honesty in their work, I also admire the way they lead their lives. They have separate lives from the Hollywood world.
Q: You worked with Lange on Cousin Bette. Ever ask her about aging in Hollywood?
A: No, but I'm sure it's a struggle. Forget being an actor, just dealing with it on a human level, it's difficult getting old.
Q: You once said you feared getting older.
A: I wouldn't be human if I didn't have that fear. I'm already old, so that's happening.
Q: You've said: "The best thing about getting older is accepting yourself for who you are and not taking any bullshit." Easier to say than do?
A: I totally believe that. The hard thing is that when you finally start feeling good about yourself inside, your outsides start going away.
Q: Would you ever consider having plastic surgery?
A: I would never rule out anything.
Q: You've mentioned older actresses you admire. Are there any under 40 who inspire you?
A: Name some.
Q: How about Winona Ryder?
A: Oh, let's not go through people, that would be awful.
Q: Which actors would you like to work with?
A: I don't know. I feel like even saying their names is just a pipe dream.
Q: Can't hurt to dream.
A: OK, Daniel Day-Lewis and Sean Penn.
Q: You've said that your husband, Davis, got you to take acting more seriously. How?
A: We met each other at a really important time in our lives, when we were both 27. He was a producer at Outlaw Productions, but he wanted to become a director. It was going to take courage, because he was leaving a very lucrative job, where he had clout, to go make documentaries, which would give him no clout. I still hadn't faced up to the fact that I needed to find a coach and go further in my acting. The safety of our relationship gave each of us the guts to dig deeper in our lives.
Q: Did you fall in love right away?
A: I knew I'd marry him the second I saw him.
Q: Did he know that about you as well?
A: He says he didn't, but he's a liar.
Q: What was your first meeting like?
A: I met him at a bowling alley. I kept watching him the whole time, waiting for him to make the first move. He didn't. So I asked him if he wanted to get some coffee, and he said yes. We talked until six in the morning. We got together the next day, and then two weeks later I moved in. And I never left.
Q: So how good of a bowler are you?
A: I'm nor bad. He's better.
Q: What's your highest score?
A: Probably 130.
Q: And Davis bowls over 200?
A: No, definitely not. He's not that good. Maybe 160. I always thought if you got over 100 it's good.
Q: It's more like over 200.
A: Come on, 200s a perfect score.
Q: Not quite, 300 is. Guess you're not really much of a bowler.
A: Oh.
Q: According to your bio on the Internet, you separated two years after you married, and then reconciled. What went wrong?
A: In a bio? Isn't that amazing. That just goes to show you the terrible awfulness of people thinking things that are not true.
Q: What are you referring to?
A: That [rumor that] I had an affair with Val Kilmer. It set into motion the most ridiculous year of my life, and even after that people still thought my husband had moved out. [The supposed separation] is there in the bio just because of that rumor.
Q: This was when you worked with Kilmer on The Saint. Did he deny the rumors?
A: Well, he didn't outright deny it because it wasn't really happening to him, it was all happening to me. They weren't going to his house to ask him if he had had an affair with me, they were coming to mine.
Q: Why would people think you and Val were having an affair?
A: Just because we went to Wimbledon together with his daughter and walked around each holding one of her hands, Val and I were good friends and we spent a lot of time together.
Q: Did your husband believe the rumors at first?
A: No. But it still affected him because everyone he knew thought that it was true. Ugh, just to talk about it gets under my skin again. That really worries me, that people read something like that and take it as gospel truth. It's one of the reasons Davis was interested in directing Gossip, actually. This whole episode that happened to us, in a little nutshell, is the seed of what Gossip is about.
Q: Of all your siblings who was the most rebellious? Who smoked the first cigarette?
A: I did. Rebellion is so obvious. When you're going through it you have no idea why you're doing it, but when you get older you look back and think, "Oh, attention!" And nobody gives you attention, so you do worse and worse things.
Q: What were the "worse" things that you did?
A: I don't really want to drum it all back up. I was just a regular adolescent.
Q: C'mon. You say in interviews that you were wild, but you don't give any "for instances."
A: The truth is that what I did I thought at the time was extremely rebellious, but in comparison to the rest of the world it was probably relatively tame.
Q: Such as going to class stoned?
A: Did I say that?
Q: In a past article, yes.
A: Not that I didn't smoke dope in high school, but I don't remember showing up in class stoned. That was something you did after school.
Q: Were you insecure as a child?
A: Completely. I had so little self-confidence. Yet if you knew me back then you'd have thought I was totally confident, because I had lots of ways of protecting myself.
Q: Did you think you were pretty?
A: No. I didn't have any feelings of what it was to be a woman or to think of myself as "pretty."
Q: How did your family see you?
A: They probably saw me as somewhat confused. I was pushing people away, acting a lot tougher than I really was.
Q: Didn't your mother say that when she watched Leaving Las Vegas she could see the loneliness you always had in you?
A: She said she recognized that there was pain inside of me, but I don't think she saw that in me when I was younger.
Q: How did the accidental death of your brother Will in 1988 affect you?
A: It stripped away what wasn't important. I stopped running away from who I was. I see it as a gift that he gave me.
Q: Do you think about him now?
A: All the time.
Q: When did you start therapy?
A: Not until I met Davis. That was another gift he gave me. He gave me the confidence that therapy would be a good thing for me. That was probably the major turning point in my life, in terms of understanding myself.
Q: Were you hiding a lot of fear?
A: Yeah, definitely. Before you grow into yourself, there's a fear that someone's going to find out that you're no: worthwhile.
Q: Do you still have that fear?
A: I'm slowly getting rid of it.
Q: When your brother Andrew found fame on "Melrose Place" were you jealous of him?
A: I feel we've gone so far into personal territory that I'm not that comfortable. Maybe I'm reacting in a real and honest way to where I feel I am in my life now.
Q: So, do you want to answer the question or not?
A: OK. At that time, it was confusing, because acting was my identity, so when another family member did it, it was ... confusing. But only for a short time. After that it was a bonding experience for us.
Q: Is Andrew still acting?
A: No. Acting wasn't the same passion for him as it was for me. He's now helping others through the organization Do Something, which trains people to become leaders in communities. It's made me think, what am I doing?
Q: Why did you choose political science and government as majors?
A: I made that decision 19 years ago when I was thinking about following my father into law, I thought I'd become a public defender one day. Back then I never thought about becoming an actress.
Q: Are you glad you're studying those subjects now or do you regret you ever took them up?
A: I feel very blessed because I'm learning about things that are happening in our world right now. One is the potential danger of globalization. Another is the dwindling of social capital in our country-- meaning everything from having a conversation with someone all the way to participating in organizations like the PTA. All aspects of personal human interaction have diminished more than 40 percent in the past 30 years. That really worries me.
Q: Who do you think will take us into this new century in a healthier manner, Gore or Bush?
A: I would definitely choose Gore.
Q: What do you think of Hillary Clinton?
A: My instincts tell me she's a good woman whose heart is in the right place.
Q: How calm are you?
A: I still bite my nails. But I'm not as orally fixated as I was when I was a smoker and had nicotine in me.
Q: What about dope?
A: Let's not talk about that.
Q: If you could live inside a painting, which would you choose?
A: I saw a beautiful Sargent painting at the Gardner Museum here in Boston. It was a stunning big painting of a flamenco dancer with a bunch of guys sitting at tables. I'd be the dancer.
Q: If you could choose anyone to have dinner with, who would it be?
A: I don't think I'd want to have dinner with someone I didn't know. I'd just want to have dinner with my husband.
Q: In Interview a few years ago you had a conversation with your friend Sheryl Crow and you asked her some questions I want to ask you. What are the moments when you feel the most joy?
A: When I'm with my husband and child.
Q: What scares you the most about your life?
A: Losing somebody.
Q: How do you reclaim your innocence?
A: By acknowledging that it's still in you.
Q: OK, now some of my offbeat ones. If you could steal one thing in the world without getting caught, what would that be?
A: I was such a klepto when I was younger, I wouldn't go there now. I wouldn't steal anything ever.
Q: If you could choose any face in history, whose would you pick?
A: I would never choose anyone's face but mine, that's just the wrong way to go with your life.
Q: If you could eat one food?
A: Ice cream.
Q: What flavor?
A: Cookie dough.
Q: What three rock singers would you like to see on one bill?
A: Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger.
Q: What question would you ask God?
A: Are you there?
Q: What animal would you like to come back as?
A: A lion.
Q: If Hollow Man does really well, what kind of project do you want to do next?
A: I've come to the point where I'm picky. I have no right to be picky, but I'm going to be that way for the rest of my life.
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Lawrence Grobel's book, Conversations With Capote, comes out this month and Above the Line, his collection of stories about movie industry people, comes out in September. Both are from Da Capo Press.