Frank Darabont, whose last film, the prison saga The Shawshank Redemption, became a time-release hit with the masses, goes behind bars again, this time with Tom Hanks for The Green Mile.
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Some movies take their sweet time ripening into classics. Citizen Kane, The Wizard of Oz, It's a Wonderful Life and Vertigo were all rescued by audiences and critics from relative obscurity decades after their disappointing theatrical releases. The Shawshank Redemption, released in 1994, was only a modest box-office success at theaters. But with the help of seven Oscar nominations, including Best Picture and Best Adapted Screenplay, and a grassroots groundswell of word of mouth, the film achieved an astounding reincarnation as a mighty video rental. In fact, it amassed such enormous movie-buff popularity that on the Internet Movie Database, a definitive online resource for film information, its ranked as one of the greatest American movies ever made.
Frank Darabont, the man who adapted Shawshank from Stephen King's novella and directed the movie, is currently giving a final spit and polish to his follow-up, The Green Mile, another prison-set parable he adapted from a Stephen King story. The film, set in the '30s, details the extraordinary relationship between a Louisiana prison warden (played by Tom Hanks) and a black inmate (Michael Duncan) blessed with healing powers who is on death row for the killing of two little girls. The movie has generated the sort of Oscar buzz most moviemakers can only dream about.
You pretty much expect someone who's managed this sort of success in Hollywood to swim with the Industry's shark-infested tide. Even if he started out a guppy, he'd have to develop into a great white. But Frank Darabont, though no guppy, hardly displays the killer instinct so prevalent in Hollywood. He rose up through the ranks in the early '80s as a production assistant on Hell Night and as a set dresser for Ken Russell on Crimes of Passion. He earned his first screenwriting credit on A Nightmare On Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors and later received a Writers Guild of America Award nomination for an episode of HBO's Tales From the Crypt called "The Ventriloquist's Dummy," after which he wrote episodes for ABC's The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.
Having developed a reputation for writing finesse, Darabont contacted Stephen King about the possibility of adapting the suspense maestro's novella Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption. King graciously agreed, giving the rights for a pittance. When Darabont showed the finished screenplay to Castle Rock Entertainment and told them he wanted to direct, they offered him $2.4 million for it--so long as he didn't direct it. Darabont exchanged the high fee for the directing gig, taking far less than $2.4 million. While Darabont clearly has no trouble standing up against the powers that be, the kind of hardball savvy he displays when he needs to doesn't spill into his everyday dealings with people. Actors and coworkers unabashedly adore him. Virtually everyone in Hollywood wants to work with him. Hell, even the guard at the studio gate, when I tell him I'm there to see Frank Darabont, says, "Have a great time. He's a terrific, really regular guy."
STEPHEN REBELLO: How do you account for the extraordinary outpouring of admiration The Shawshank Redemption keeps generating years after its release?
FRANK DARABONT: The movie speaks to people on a level you don't get enough of in movies anymore. It says something positive about human nature. People seem to use the movie to help them get through bad patches in their lives. I think that's why Titanic, aside from its value as an incredible spectacle, was so popular. Field of Dreams, which is a magical piece of filmmaking, comes from a similar spiritual place. In an increasingly nihilistic world, with movies that are increasingly nihilistic, these films give people something to believe in.
Q: Whose love for the movie has most surprised you?
A: Ladies are always telling me how much the film moves them, and I think that has to do with the fact that it's about friendship, about relationships. They find it as fascinating as if the characters were female. Housewives having a really bad time in their marriages or going through a difficult divorce write letters saying things like, "It was your movie that allowed me to swim through that river of shit I was in." That's lovely. The most moving response came from a Newsweek article written by a man named Jeff Kaufman, who, in an essay about his medical condition, ALS--Lou Gehrig's disease--talked about the movie as a metaphor for being imprisoned inside his own body, and said it renewed his sense of hope to continue on despite difficult circumstances. Mind you, he can't speak or type anymore, so this essay was written with his knees, which he pressed together to manipulate a computer. Steve King called me on my car phone as I was riding home from a meeting and brought Jeff's column to my attention. I was blown away by it. As a result of that, I've become involved in helping with a yearly ALS fund-raiser.
Q: How does it feel knowing that, despite good reviews and all those Oscar nominations, Shawshank never found a big audience among ticket buyers?
A: Ironic. Strange. We scored 96 with test audiences, meaning a huge majority of people who were shown the movie rated it "Good" to "Excellent." Do you know how rare that is? Most people who score in the 80s are ecstatic. We still couldn't talk people into coming to the movie when it was released. We knew we had a hard sell, but, jeez, with those numbers, you'd have thought we'd have had better luck with it. It was frustrating. Certain critics jumped on its having a "weird" title, but that didn't have as much to do with it as the fact that it was a prison movie that wasn't some kick-boxing action flick. The audience figured, "It's got Morgan Freeman, Tim Robbins and prison--it's going to depress us." Also, we chose a limited release, which sounded like a good idea even to me, but then most of the audience that would have turned out opening weekend because of the great reviews couldn't find it in a theater near them.
Q: You were a theater usher as a kid. Can you see from that viewpoint what hurt Shawshank?
A: I remember that there were a lot of phonetically challenged people, who if they couldn't pronounce the title, were very intimidated about asking for a ticket. That may have played a role, sure.
Q: People seem to have a tough time with your name, too.
A: [Laughs] I've gotten everything from Duradont to Garibaldi. I used to look forward to going to meetings and finding out at the guard gate what the hell they'd done with my name.
Q: As an usher who could watch movies over and over, did you see any movies that changed your life?
A: I had some seminal experiences, definitely. One of the most formative was watching THX 1138, the first film George Lucas directed--and a terribly underrated one. It made me consciously realize that there was a storyteller at work, someone whose mind, heart and world view were imprinted on every frame. I remember thinking, at 12 years old, that if I could walk up to the screen and stick my head magically through it, into the world of that film, I could see who that guy actually was.
Q: Are you aware that thousands of movie fans surveyed on the Internet Movie Database rated Shawshank higher than films like Citizen Kane and Lawrence of Arabia?
A: That is so great. [Laughs] A pat on the back from the very people you want to please most--the audience. When I was making the movie, I was just operating from the gut and hoping that what pleased me would do the same for others.
Q: Tom Cruise nearly played the role Tim Robbins eventually played. Brad Pitt nearly played the part Gil Bellows did. What went down?
A: Tom flirted with the project for awhile before passing. I don't want to speak for him, but he might have been concerned about my being an unproven director. Certainly no hard feelings. The first day of shooting, in Ohio in the middle of nowhere, Tom sent a gift basket for me with a lovely note wishing me luck on the shoot. It was an incredibly graceful, classy, generous thing to do. Brad Pitt was interested in the project, right at the point in his career when he was breaking pretty largely into starring roles. Ultimately, he couldn't commit the time to do it. Actually, I'm rather pleased it worked out that way because he became such a big star that, in a smallish role like that, it might have thrown off the balance of the movie. Besides, Gil did a great job.
Q: Why such a long lag between The Shawshank Redemption and The Green Mile?
A: I was offered a lot of stuff subsequent to Shawshank, but my desire was to make a terrific movie, not just take another directing gig. There's a lot of uninspired stuff around. I got one goddamn Die Hard knockoff after another. Then there was the one about the serial killer of children. I'd read them and think, "I don't want to see this movie, let alone spend a year or two making it." I was tempted to call these people and say, "What exactly did you see in Shawshank that you think recommends me for this?"
Q: The Green Mile is, again, Stephen King. Again, a prison setting. Again, a period movie and something of a parable. Did you resist it for any of those reasons?
A: It was the luck of the draw more than anything. It was too extraordinary a story to ignore. It made me laugh, moved me, took me on a journey. Those are criteria for movies that I want to make. Hey, I'm just waiting for Steve to write another prison movie and I may make that one, too. [Laughs] But, having said that, I can't imagine two movies being more different than they are.
Q: You were born in a French relocation camp after the 1956 Hungarian uprising. Maybe I'm reaching, but do you think that experience might have somehow shaped your fascination for prisons?
A: It's not something I'm consciously aware of, but it could have predisposed me to a certain understanding of people, a love for the human spirit.
Q: What was Stephen King's relationship to the project?
A: Steve tends to be very supportive and hands-off with me. When he gives away the rights, he washes his hands of it so that if it turns out really shitty, he's not as emotionally involved. Shawshank turned out very much to his liking, so when I asked him for the rights to The Green Mile, he was very cooperative. In fact, for old time's sake, he gave me the option for one dollar. Once the movie got green-lighted, I'm sure he got more dollars--he's Steve King. And he's kind of Castle Rock family, after Stand By Me, Misery, Dolores Claiborne and Shawshank.
Q: Many people thought the length of Shawshank hurt it. Are you sensitive about that with The Green Mile?
A: I don't mind a movie that's long, if it's taken me on a journey. I lose track of time. I enjoyed every moment of Titanic and I thought every moment of Schindler's List was a masterpiece. Is it too long? Yeah, if your criterion is that you only want to see a two-hour movie. If you're Leonard Maltin, yeah, sure, it's too long. I don't want to be dictated to by the short attention spans of the MTV crowd. Maybe Leonard's right. Let's ban all movies over two hours. Just burn the negatives and never make another movie over two hours. So we'll lose Lawrence of Arabia, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Schindler's List. But at least Leonards ass will not be numb. I won't speculate what The Green Mile will run, but I promise you, it's going to be longer than two hours. People should pee before the houselights dim.
Q: When you cast the new movie, were actors breaking down your door?
A: I got wind of how actors felt about Shawshank over the years. I met Tom Hanks at the Academy Awards nominees luncheon when we were up against Forrest Gump, a movie that kicked the shit out of us. It was really nice to have an extraordinary actor and big-ass movie star like him say, "Gee, I really loved your movie. If you ever want to work with me, give me a call." When I finished writing The Green Mile, mat's exactly what I did. Tom read it and committed to it within 48 hours. So, we fired one torpedo and sank the battleship. This is a guy who doesn't waste words on something he doesn't mean. Steven Spielberg was right when he told me Tom was going to spoil me for all actors.
Q: Did you get the rest of the cast you wanted?
A: I had short lists for all the roles in the movie and I pretty much got every first choice actor. It was like winning the lottery. I knew Bonnie Hunt was going to have great chemistry with Tom, so I offered her the role. It's disheartening to see two fine actors with no chemistry trying to fake it, like Julia Roberts and Nick Nolte in I Love Trouble. You cant mandate it.
Q: Are you intensely aware of the Oscar buzz around The Green Mile?
A: Good buzz is better than bad. Hey, I hope "they"--whoever "they" are--are right. Very few of "they" have seen it. I've shown the early cut to Steve King and Steven Spielberg and I saw 'Spielberg sniffling. Four times I made him cry. [Laughs] I manipulated the great manipulator. I've also seen a number of distribution executives reduced to tears. A good sign, I'd say.
Q: Are your movies a difficult sell?
A: The movies I've made so far can't be termed high-concept. I can't describe Shawshank in 10 words or less and I surely can't describe Green Mile that way. I'm lucky that I don't have to convince anyone at Castle Rock. The town is full of executives who fall in love with good material but their marketing departments tell them, "Sorry. We can't sell that." I suspect some very good movies don't get made for that reason. I don't have to fight any battles with Castle Rock.
Q: Your reputation is the polar opposite of the screaming, ranting diva director.
A: I don't like bullies. I don't like unpleasant people. What's more, there isn't any element of this job that requires that. I had a bit of that in my father. I grew up disliking it. I came to understand him as I matured, but that doesn't excuse any of it. His was a wasted life, as far as I'm concerned. One thing bullies never get is that they'll never get the best out of people by mistreating or demeaning them.
Q: How do you handle your emotions on a movie?
A: I just fire a few shots over people's heads and that calms everything right down. [Laughs] I get tense, crabby. Lord knows the fatigue factor and pressure get to you, but I go outside the soundstage and walk around the parking lot counting to 10, and if that doesn't work, I count to 100.
Q: Your mother is still alive. Have you been able to do anything cool for her with the movie money?
A: I was able to retire her about a year early and move her out of Inglewood to Sedona, which is a nice change of pace. She was a legal secretary most of her life, and later worked for the Social Security Administration. She had two sons to support and it was a hard row for her. It was a pleasure to be able to do something nice for her. She was my date at the Oscars, and she loves going to premieres and all that Hollywood stuff.
Q: What about The Bijou, a romantic comedy that you may direct next?
A: What a lovely story this is. A real romantic comedy set during the McCarthy hearings in 1952, so it's got a little serious edge, too. Mostly, it's just moving, so lovely and such a fable. After I clear my head out, I'll get to work on the script, but I won't start seriously thinking about it until early next year. There are actually a number of other Stephen King pieces that I'm kicking around. One of them, The Mist, is an out-and-out horror film, which would get me back to my roots, really. All these more recent ironic, post-modern takes on the genre don't interest me at all. I'm looking to see the whole genre unfold again. There are signs of life in the old girl yet. Look at The Silence of the Lambs or Seven. I haven't seen Blair Witch, but the last time someone made something really innovative was Sam Raimi's Evil Dead 2 with Bruce Campbell doing some things in it as good as a silent film comedian.
Q: Are the rumors true that you're going to produce a Doc Savage adventure fantasy epic, with Arnold Schwarzenegger playing the strong guy?
A: We've got it in development at Castle Rock. Two brilliant young men in my office--Dave Johnson, my assistant, and his college buddy Brett Hill--love the pulp stuff and brought Doc Savage to my attention. Dave is about to go out on a leave of absence to write the draft. It's been really exciting to mentor them in this. We took it to Arnold, who is the perfect Doc Savage, if you ask me, and a lovely man. We've been talking about working together for some years. With any luck at all, within the next two years, we'll see Arnold as Doc Savage in a theater near you.
Q: What's the state of American screenwriting?
A: Well, it's not like the earlier days of movies, when movies were literate and screenwriters had read the great writers and were themselves great writers. A lot of screenplays today are written by people who grew up thinking Gilligan's Island was ancient dramaturgy.
Q: Is it true you worked with Spielberg on rewrites for Saving Private Ryan?
A: Yes. He'd offered me a few things as a script doctor before Private Ryan, and I was, like, "Nah." I'm glad I waited for the one thing to come along that I could really be passionate about. There's quite a lot of my work in the movie, just as there's a lot of Robert Rodat, and Scott Frank brought some very significant things to it. I'm delighted to have become a friend of Spielberg's recently. He's an extraordinary man and an enormous spirit. He's got this aura around him that's like a battery charger. I can go there feeling drained from making The Green Mile and I walk away from him feeling like I'm the luckiest guy in the world because I got to make The Green Mile. He has an amazing, low-key gravitas that really puts me in a good mood and reinspires me every time I see him.
Q: It was rumored that you were a candidate to write Star Wars: Episode 1--The Phantom Menace. What happened?
A: [Laughs] Any number of smart-ass answers leap to mind. How about, "I pissed off George and he has a contract out on my life"--I love the rumor mill, man. Very simply, I was approached early on about the film. It wasn't an unusual notion, because I'd worked for George on The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles. I said, "Of course I'd be interested. Let me know when you're ready." When George was writing the treatment, he decided to go into first draft on his own. Once he was into it, I don't think he wanted to get away from it. The need for Frank Darabont never arose. As it turned out, he didn't need me.
Q: Did you ever ask Lucas why he wasn't directing movies for so long before the Star Wars prequel?
A: I did and he said, "Well, it pretty much kicks my ass." His earlier experiences were so difficult that he decided to take some time away from it, and that turned into 20 years. In the meantime, he built an extraordinary business empire. It's not like he was sitting home eating pizza. The man has a scary work ethic.
Q: Do you accept the comparisons people have made between you and Frank Capra?
A: He's one of my gods. He was one of the best ever and I'm certainly not comparing myself to him, but I have some things in common with his sensibilities. He had a real interest in what made people tick, what made them rise to an occasion. He looked for what was strong, good and noble in human nature. People are being forced to eat nihilistic Big Macs. Audiences want to know the heights to which we can aspire. They want food for the soul. Hollywood ought to take better care of that need, I think.
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Stephen Rebello interviewed Melissa Joan Hart for the August 99 issue of Movieline.