Caught in a spotlight, Nicole Kidman can seem distant and reserved. But have a talk with her in quiet evening light, and she comes across as relaxed and open--about working with Sandra Bullock on her new film Practical Magic ("She doesn't take it all too seriously, and that's good"), about her never-ending shoot with Stanley Kubrick on Eyes Wide Shut ("I would do it again in a second"), about Tom ("I've been going through a pretty romantic stage lately") and about herself ("I wouldn't mind having bigger boobs").
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Nicole Kidman pulls into my driveway, gets out of her new deep blue BMW 850 holding two plastic bags of sushi, tells me she's starving, and walks into my house as if she's been there before. She offers to help my wife put the food on plates, places her keys on a table and says, "I lose everything--so remember that they're here." Two minutes in my house and already I feel her energy and determination. She looks younger than her 31 years, and she's a lithe, graceful five-foot-ten. In street parlance, it's easy to see that she's got game.
Kidman found an agent for herself at 14 and began acting in Australia, where she twice won the Australian Film Institute's award for best actress in a miniseries. At 19, she landed a starring role in her first feature film, Dead Calm. It didn't take long for Tom Cruise to want her in his film Days of Thunder, and by the time she turned 23 they were married. They starred together in another film, Far and Away, and recently completed working with the legendary Stanley Kubrick on Eyes Wide Shut, one of the most anticipated and secretive films ever, and still not ready for release. In addition to those films, Kidman has done Billy Bathgate _(1991), _My Life (1993), Malice (1993), Batman Forever (1995), To Die For (1995), for which she won a Golden Globe, The Portrait of a Lady (1996) and The Peacemaker (1997). Her new film is Practical Magic with Sandra Bullock.
LAWRENCE GROBEL: You and Sandra Bullock play sisters in Practical Magic. Did you enjoy working with her?
NICOLE KIDMAN: Yeah. I never got to work opposite a woman before and I liked it. Sandy's a tomboy and she likes to have fun. She doesn't take it all too seriously, and that's good. We just laughed. We teased [director] Griffin [Dunne] and had a lot of fun together and have become good friends.
Q: Do you have many friends?
A: A lot. And I'm glad I can say that. Most of my friends I knew from Australia. They were actors and they're now leading the industry there. In L.A. not many actors meet each other because you're off and about and quite isolated.
Q: You and Tom were off and about for quite a while working with Stanley Kubrick on Eyes Wide Shut.
A: Yeah, that took a year and a half and will never be seen by anybody! But it does exist.
Q: Looking back, how would you assess the experience?
A: People looked at us like we were crazy to go there. But we weren't giving up anything, we were working with Kubrick. Yeah, could we have done three other movies and made lots of money--who cares? This was an epoch in our lives. I will forever remember it for being this strange, wonderful experience.
Q: And how was Kubrick to work with?
A: People ask me if it was hell. I say, "No, it was the complete opposite. It was an honor." I would do it again in a second. Stanley is extraordinary to be with. I would just go and sit in his office when we weren't shooting, just to be around him. We'd talk about everything, politics, World War II, Peter Sellers, airplanes, computers. You name it, he knows about it. He's a genius and I love him. I miss him now.
Q: Do you think Eyes Wide Shut will be a major film?
A: I don't know, I really don't. I wasn't allowed on the set when they were shooting the scenes I wasn't in. I read the script, but it changed.
Q: Does it have the potential for greatness?
A: I know that Kubrick has never made an uninteresting film. What's the difference between an interesting film and a great film?
Q: You said Kubrick reminded you of your father.
A: Stanley won't like to hear that--he doesn't like to be viewed as a father figure. He was just very kind to me. I respond to kindness. If someone is beating up on me I'll try to rise to the occasion, but I respond to nurturing.
Q: Did you and Tom bring the characters home with you?
A: It was intense.
Q: How different are the characters from what you are?
A: I can't answer that. I'd love to, I'm dying to talk about it, but once I get into that . . . I've just got to be careful. There is so much interest in this film. Tom's been in a lot of films that have had a lot of interest, but nothing like this.
Q: Does that scare you?
A: Yeah, because you can never live up to expectations.
Q: What was your first meeting with Kubrick like?
A: We sat in his kitchen. I was nervous. I thought he was going to see me in person and go, "Oh my God, I made a dreadful mistake." Tom was also really nervous.
Q: You said in Vanity Fair that you don't like to work as much as you used to. Is that a result of your experience on Eyes Wide Shut?
A: On the film I got to live a lot, because I had a lot of time off. I went to London, Rome, Paris. I learned Italian. I still want to work, but now I want to live my life more than I want to work.
Q: You skydive, scuba dive, do aerobatics, mountain climb, let boa constrictors wrap around your neck--what thrills you about these things?
A: I'm addicted to adrenaline.
Q: Have you done any drugs to get high? LSD? Mescaline?
A: I've never done LSD, but yeah, I've done my share of drugs. I've been working in the film industry since I was 14, so I've been in contact with every drug imaginable. But I never was addicted to them. I get a huge depression after drugs. I was lucky.
Q: What adventure would you think twice before doing?
A: Nothing.
Q: Would you walk on hot coals?
A: As a spiritual experience? No.
Q: Be a target for a knife thrower?
A: A good one. I'd watch him do somebody else first.
Q: Go into a cage full of lions or tigers?
A: I've done that.
Q: Allow an elephant to step over you?
A: No.
Q: Put your head in an alligator's mouth?
A: Yeah, why not?
Q: Hold a tarantula?
A: Oh yeah.
Q: Lick a mouse?
A: Lick a mouse! No. Gross.
Q: Get your tongue pierced?
A: Isn't that meant to be really good for . . . well, why get into that? [Laughs] Possibly.
Q: How close to death have you gotten?
A: I've driven on the wrong side of the road, barely nicking the car in front of me. I've been with my mother when she had breast cancer. I was 17 when she went through chemo. I learned massage therapy to help her through radiation. She's still alive and I'm very, very close to her.
Q: At 17 you went to Amsterdam with a boyfriend, but came back quickly. Why?
A: I ran out of money. I went with three grand and a Dutch boyfriend. We went to Paris, stayed in a tiny attic room, could barely afford bread and cheese. But boy it was so romantic. We went to Italy, to Florence, and it snowed, which it hadn't done in 18 years.
Q: How many times have you been in love in your life?
A: Three.
Q: And with the other two, did you get hurt at the end?
A: One of them, yeah. No, twice really.
Q: Do you keep in touch with old boyfriends?
A: Yes, I'm friends with all my exes.
Q: When did boys enter your consciousness?
A: At about 14, I really started to like them. It's wonderful when that happens. Those tingles are priceless.
Q: Did older guys used to hit on you?
A: Yes. I spent two years with a man who was 13 years older than me. I also dated another who was 17 years older than me. I was 17. My parents were quite open.
Q: Coming from a close family, why did you feel the need to leave school and country at 17?
A: Because I got a job and I wanted to be an actress. I knew I wasn't going to go to college. I wanted to cut loose. I was a nightmare to my parents. I lied to them. There was a time when my mother said, "I can't live in the same house with her." It wasn't all roses. But that also put me in good stead [for the future]. Because I grew up in a family that yelled a lot, I don't cower [now]. People would lose their tempers in our house, things would be thrown, and an hour later we'd sit around and have a laugh.
Q: As a kid, did you ever read anything you weren't supposed to? Like Henry Miller?
A: Yeah, of course, you're a kid, that's what you do. I read Lady Chatterley's Lover. But my mother would bring home films from the school of nursing when we were 12 to show us sex. We would have to sit there and look at, in detail, everything. My parents overeducated me. My sister and I were so embarrassed. And my dad would take me to modern dance, where the dancers were totally naked. I'd be sitting next to my dad when I was nine or ten and fully grown men would be walking around naked.
Q: Did your dad say anything about it?
A: Just to accept it for what it was. "Wasn't that artistic and wonderful and did you enjoy it?"
Q: Do you know the titles of your father's books?
A: Time Management. Managing Love and Hate. He's written five.
Q: Have you read them?
A: Yeah. He's a great father, I can call him at three in the morning and he's there for me.
Q: Did either of your parents warn you against marrying Tom at such an early age?
A: Yes, my mom. She said, "Hold on, hold on."
Q: Why did you want to get married at 23 rather than just live with Tom?
A: Because I loved him.
Q: Whose idea was it to get married?
A: His.
Q: Do other women come on to Tom when you're around?
A: Not that I'm aware of. I used to get jealous early on, but I don't anymore at all. That's what Eyes Wide Shut is about, jealousy and sexual obsession.
Q: Has marriage changed you?
A: Yeah, I would hope so. I trust more. I didn't really trust before Tom.
Q: Did you ever consider using his last name?
A: No. I was raised by a strong feminist mother. I'm not opposed to it in the sense that I love being a part of his life. I just don't need to carry his name around.
Q: You've said that Tom is more romantic than you--is that still true?
A: I've been going through a pretty romantic stage lately.
Q: Was it Tom who wanted you to learn self-defense?
A: That was a birthday present from Tom. But I had to guarantee that I'd never use it on him.
Q: What kind of gifts have you gotten him over the years?
A: We have a thing now where we're not going to buy each other expensive gifts. We write each other letters now.
Q: Do you save all your letters?
A: Yes, in a letter box.
Q: What film of Tom's do you like best?
A: Born on the Fourth of July is my favorite. It made me fall in love with him.
Q: Was that before you met him?
A: No, I met him, and then he said, go and see this movie. When I saw it I thought, my God. It's so extraordinary to see someone go to those places in himself.
Q: You sounded some regret about having done Far and Away with Tom so quickly after Days of Thunder.
A: I regretted the way I was viewed as just Tom Cruise's wife. In terms of the film and the character, I was very appreciative. The movie was treated harshly.
Q: Do you feel you're still perceived as Tom Cruise's wife?
A: I don't know, what do you think? Now I'm comfortable with being Tom Cruise's wife. [Laughs] Then I was trying to have my own identity. I'm sure that happens to a lot of people--I was just experiencing it in a public way.
Q: Did Tom talk to you about dealing with your celebrity?
A: Yeah. I'm pretty open--I'm Australian, I'll talk. And I'm also a woman and women tend to be more open. I will talk about personal things--far more than a lot of my male friends. But you talk a lot about yourself, you start to feel self-indulgent. As my mom would say, "Oh, shut up!"
Q: How often do you sue or contemplate suing publications that print lies about you?
A: We did it with a German magazine and we're in the process of doing it with an English one now. We do it because we turned the other cheek for so many years. Finally you go, "No more: we've got the money and we're going to go to court--every time." I tell you, it changes them--they think twice before they go and print some scurrilous gossip. I want to protect who I am in relation to my kids. I don't want them to have to go to school and defend us.
Q: Let me put a light on, it's getting dark.
A: I like this light, don't you?
Q: Sure, I like seeing you in silhouette. If I could just see my questions as well.
A: Can't read them, huh? But it's nice, it makes me very introspective, this light.
Q: How neurotic a profession is acting?
A: It can feed into your neurosis. You have to constantly reign yourself in. You also need to make sure you're constantly aware that you're in a really fortunate position and not to take advantage of it.
Q: Annette Bening told me that acting is about scaring yourself a little. Agree?
A: That's great. It is going to the edge. Part of it is bordering on insanity when you're acting. At times you feel you're delving into things you feel you shouldn't be delving into.
Q: One of the projects you'll soon be delving into is the erotic thriller In the Cut by Susannah Moore--will the film be as graphic as the novel?
A: No.
Q: In her novel, Moore writes: "Women will talk about anything--sexual jealousy, dishonor, the lovely advantages of eating pussy or sucking cock, the disadvantages of eating pussy or sucking cock--but they will not tell you about fucking themselves." Now this is a book that you read and said, "This is for me." Is she right?
A: The way she writes is very graphic, but yeah, it's an interesting point that she's making. It's sort of true actually. Simple as that. Is the question why did I want to do the book? Because it's a book about loneliness. It speaks to a generation of women in their 30s now who are lonely. I'm now 30, and I've got a lot of friends between 30 and 35. It's a book about searching. That's what appealed to me. On top of that, it's a very erotic book. In the hands of Jane Campion, who's going to direct it, that becomes interesting, because I've never known Jane to be ugly in the way she depicts sex. I bought the novel for Jane. I asked her to produce it with me. As we worked on it we fell in love with it. We're now very passionate about it. It will be a very controversial movie, but it will have a lot of depth and insight into women. It's a shocking novel, but the film will not be made to shock. A lot of people have told me not to make this movie, but that spurs me on.
Q: Did you discuss this one with Tom?
A: No. He read it after I bought it. We've grown together as people and we're very secure in our relationship. We have huge fights sometimes, we're both quite volatile and passionate. But we're ultimately incredibly supportive of each other. He would never stifle my instincts and I would never stifle his.
Q: What about casting? Do you ever ask him about actors you're thinking of working with in an erotic film like this?
A: Oh no. Jane is going to cast it, and she's completely headstrong in what she wants. I love to acquiesce to that. My thing is when I work with a director, I just want to please the director.
Q: The father figure?
A: I suppose that's what it is. I try to help them with their vision so that they will feel that you never let them down.
Q: How often have you felt that you've let a director down?
A: All the time. I can look at every film I've done and pick it to pieces. I love the process of making a movie far more than I do watching the movie. I get nauseous before I see it. I dread it. When I first saw To Die For I tortured myself--I kept thinking I could have done things better._ Portrait_'s the same thing. It was on cable the other night and Tom goes, "Let's watch it." And I went, "No, no, no, change the channel!" I think it's because you give so much to the film and you get so emotionally attached. That happened both with Portrait and To Die For. And they had two extreme reactions--one was lauded and the other was attacked.
Q: Does it hurt you when a film like Portrait is attacked?
A: Oh yeah, of course. I saw what Jane Campion put into it and what we all did and I wish that people got it. There was one critic I really respected who did not like the movie and that was, like, Oh damn! But I love the movie.
Q: Jane Campion said that you told her you hated some of the work you had been doing and were considering giving up acting. True?
A:I'm always considering giving up acting. Last month I was going to give up acting. It was true with Jane--I was frustrated. As an actor you're judged on your choices. A lot of the time you don't get to choose among the great films, and if you want to work and grow, then you have to accept maybe not the best things for you at that time. Before To Die For I was frustrated. I hadn't worked for a year. It's a hard industry. We were living in Los Angeles then. Tom was working the whole time.
Q: Were you jealous of that?
A: No, no. That was when I really realized how much I loved this man. I was able to go, "Your career is almost more important than mine." I never felt that before. I never wanted to live with somebody, I wanted to be alone, take care of myself. I had this fear of being dependent. But it's fantastic when you feel that no matter what happens, you have your friend and your lover on this path with you. That's what I was always looking for. And when I found it and was able to go, I can love somebody and he's going to love me back and not hurt me--that was a huge thing for me. When I met Tom, it was that thing: this is the person that I've been searching for. It sounds really corny to talk like this.
Q: Your To Die For director, Gus Van Sant, said you filled a notebook with exercises to do for every scene. And your Batman Forever director, Joel Schumacher, said you are an obsessive-compulsive.
A: It's like doing your homework before you take your exam. It may not come up on the exam but you want the confidence to go in and feel you know it all. For To Die For I learned to edit film. I shot the little film in the film. I just don't know any other way to do it.
Q: Who else is as obsessive as you that you know of?
A: Jennifer Jason Leigh is like that. Barbara Hershey.
Q: What about your Billy Bathgate costar, Dustin Hoffman?
A: Oh, Dustin's like that. As an actor you look to Dustin as a god. He's always thinking and he's always looking. The basis for acting is to be observant. He's also spontaneous and quick, and he comes up with idea after idea. You spend three years at drama school and then you work with Dustin Hoffman and you go, "My God, they should just bring him in for a day."
Q: Did Dustin give you and Tom bowling balls?
A: He did, yeah. We bowl.
Q: What's your best game?
A: I'm not that good, like 118.
Q: Are you a better sailor than you are a bowler?
A: I learned to single-handedly sail an 80-foot yacht on Dead Calm. We lived at sea for the exterior stuff. We worked 17 hours a day. I was 19, it was my first big film. I was obsessed with the character and the film. I threw myself into it. When I look back I think, "My God, what was I doing?"
Q: What do you dislike most about your appearance?
A: My height.
Q: You've always hated being tall?
A: Yeah, I wish I was five-foot-six. And I wouldn't mind having bigger boobs. [Laughs]
Q: Would you ever have them enlarged?
A: No. Au naturel.
Q: So you want to be shorter with bigger boobs?
A: [Laughs] And dark.
Q: Dark, short, buxom--you'd like to be Italian!
A: Italy is my favorite country. I love Italians. I love the way they speak, their attitude about life, yeah, I should have been Italian.
Q: Have your looks ever worked against you?
A: Yeah. I consider myself to have a very versatile face. I can look good and I can look bad.
Q: When do you look bad?
A: In The Portrait of a Lady.
Q: But you had three men in love with you in that film.
A: And I said to Jane, "Do you think people are going to believe this?" [Laughs] Isabel, physically, is quite plain. But I loved that. I love to look plain on-screen. I'm not the type of actress who knows what my best angle is or how to light my face. I have no interest in it. When I cry I say, "Don't touch me up."
Q: What women do you consider beautiful?
A: Ingrid Bergman is probably the most beautiful woman. I like women who live their lives, women who are not afraid, like Ava Gardner.
Q: How would you describe beauty?
A: The thing that surprises me is when somebody views the world in a different way than I do. That entices me much more than physical beauty. The mind is far more attractive.
Q: In terms of attraction, is a man with money the equivalent of a woman who's beautiful?
A: Yeah, I suppose it's true. I happen to be married to a man who has a lot of money, but that's strange because prior to Tom, I had never gone out with men who had enough money to pay for my dinner.
Q: If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?
A: It wouldn't be physical. I'd make myself calmer. It would be so wonderful to be described as serene.
Q: Does your husband try to fatten you with his chocolate chip cookies?
A: That was when I was younger. I have to be more careful now. I can eat anything I want, but then I go and run four miles a day.
Q: What are you particularly looking forward to?
A: I'm about to do a play in London--David Hare's adapted La Ronde. It will open in September for eight weeks. I have to play five characters. It's an experiment, which is what theater is for: to push and challenge yourself.
Q: Do you have trouble sleeping?
A: Yeah. Did you read that in a magazine? God, I reveal everything. I better keep some mystery, this is terrible.
Q: What's your greatest extravagance?
A: Art. I like the '30s and '40s. And I love to collect black-and-white photographs--Steichen, Weston, Lee Miller, Man Ray. But I shouldn't talk about it because then I'll get robbed. The world is weird now.
Q: Heard any good jokes lately?
A: I'm a terrible joke teller. I have one very dirty joke, but I can only tell it when I'm drunk. If I tell it when I'm straight it's terrible.
Q: Want some wine?
A: [Laughs] I'm saving it for a film. I really want to tell the joke in a film.
Q: What's your favorite red wine?
A: Petrus, 1975. I have expensive taste. I know quite a bit about wine because I drink it a lot. In this day and age, you may as well enjoy yourself.
Q: Ever smoke a cigar?
A: Yeah. I used to not drink coffee, now I drink copious amounts of coffee. I just love reading the paper, drinking cafe au lait. [Laughs] I'm going for it!
Q: I read an article where Tom said you worry all the time. What do you have to worry about?
A: I have the personality for it. Our relationship is a great one. We work really hard at it. It isn't perfect by any stretch. We're brutally honest with each other at times. I get worried when Tom goes up in a plane because it makes me think, God, I don't know what I would do if he wasn't in this world.
Q: Is it true you won't let your kids fly with him?
A: I used to not, but now I do. If anything ever happened to them my life would be over. But he's so headstrong, he manages to convince me. He's only taken the kids up twice and not in the aerobatic plane, I won't allow that. But Connor is obsessed with planes. Just my luck. He's three and all he talks about are planes and motorbikes. I've done nothing to encourage this and neither has Tom. Bella has had the exact same things that Connor has had, yet she has not responded to cars or motorbikes. It must be partly conditioning that I'm not aware of--I still can't believe it's just genetic. I want Bella to learn guitar, but she sits there without much interest, and Connor wants to learn guitar. They're gonna be what they're gonna be.
Q: What do you feel you're better at, acting or mothering?
A: I get so much joy out of just lying in bed and reading to my children, seeing their faces light up. That stuff is priceless. If it came to a choice between having a career or being a mother, I would give up my career. Wouldn't even think twice about it.
Q: You said that it's a discovery when the child is adopted--you're not seeing yourself duplicated.
A: The spiritual aspect of adoption is that it's so extraordinary that two adults and a little baby find themselves in such a huge world. That makes it very special. We tell both our kids: "No, you didn't come from my tummy, but you came from my heart."
Q: Are either of your parents involved in Scientology?
A: No.
Q: With your father being a psychologist I imagine he questioned you about it?
A: Oh yeah. I'm interested in all sorts of things. It's not like I am just one thing. I'm interested in Buddhism. I pride myself on my open-mindedness.
Q: Do you consider yourself complicated?
A: Yeah.
Q: Stubborn?
A: About certain things. But I'm pretty willing to hear the other side.
Q: You have extremely long fingers--do you play the piano?
A: Yeah.
Q: Streisand's got long fingers, too.
A: She has beautiful hands. I saw her at a party and I couldn't take my eyes off her hands. She has the most beautiful hands I've ever seen.
Q: Who are your favorite authors and what was the first book that influenced you?
A: George Eliot and Henry James. The first book that really influenced me was [Eliot's] Middlemarch. Eliot was so perceptive about human nature. I could understand it at an early age. Whereas I read The Portrait of a Lady and didn't understand it and needed to read it again after I'd been through certain life experiences.
Q: Think you'll ever publish your journal?
A: Never. I'd have to kill myself.
Q: Charlie Sheen and David Duchovny gave Movieline samples of their poetry to publish, why not an excerpt from your journal?
A: No! It's not in any way for posterity. It's therapy for myself. I love Muhammed Ali's short poem: "Me, we."
Q: Do you like boxing?
A: I love boxing. I feel embarrassed to like it so much because it's such a brutal sport.
Q: You're the chairperson of the advisory board for UCLA's Women's Reproductive Cancer Research and Treatment Program. What do you do for them?
A: Fund-raise. I believe wholeheartedly in Dr. Berek there. They're in positions to help and save women's lives. I'm glad you mentioned it, it's good to give them a plug.
Q: I can barely see you.
A: I know, we're sitting in the dark. It's kind of good, eating sushi and sitting in the dark.
Q: Maybe it's time to end this.
A: But you never asked me what painting I'd like to live in. You asked Jim Carrey that.
Q: I don't like to ask the same questions to everybody.
A: Yeah, but I was expecting that one.
Q: Oh all right, what painting?
A: Munch.
Q: The Scream?
A: Yes!
Q: OK, you can go home now and put the kids to bed.
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Lawrence Grobel interviewed David Duchovny for the July '98 issue of Movieline.