Harrison Ford discusses Air Force One, and then talks about the Dalai Lama, happiness, the legalization of marijuana, the best way to die, and the one question he'd ask God.
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If you know anyone who knows Harrison Ford personally what he's like, they'll tell you he's playful and funny, among other things. If you are a journalist and you ask Ford what he's like, he says, "I have very little interest in The Subject. I haven't thought about The Subject."
As statements from gigantically successful movie stars go, this one is unhelpful on the one hand, and understandable on the other. Either way, it's the attitude Ford protects himself with in public. He considers interviews to be part of his job, something he must do when he has a film to promote--the film in this case being Air Force One, in which the president of the United States is held hostage with his wife and child by terrorists aboard the presidential plane. But if you ask Ford some of the offbeat questions he thinks he's no good at answering, he can surprise you, and even hint at some of the lesser-known parts of The Subject.
LAWRENCE GROBEL: Did it ever occur to you at a certain age that you were old enough to be the president?
HARRISON FORD: It occurred to me when I played the president at 54 that I was probably a little old for it.
Q: Are you the hero in the end of Air Force One?
A: I'm a hero in the beginning. You'll just have to pay your money and find out about the end. [Pause] Yeah, of course I am. He does save the day.
Q: How was it working with Gary Oldman as the bad guy? Do actors like Oldman raise the level of your own performance?
A: I don't know if you can say that it raised the level, as though some greater quality exists, but it's fun to work with, an actor to whom it comes easily, who's able to be spontaneous and take advantage of what's going on.
Q: Do you like to improvise?
A: I rarely improvise. I'd rather discuss the idea and get collaborative agreement on it before I do it. Pure improvisation doesn't often work.
Q: Are there things you've seen in past characters which you'd like to do differently now?
A: I'm not satisfied, but I can't imagine actively thinking about changing anything. I don't have that kind of abstract head.
Q: Did things go more smoothly on Air Force One than on The Devil's Own?
A: It was a piece of cake. We all called it Air Force Fun.
Q: Is that usually the case with your films?
A: It normally is. Every once in a while there's a bump in the road.
Q: Have you ever bad-mouthed one of your movies?
A: No.
Q: What was your reaction when you heard that Brad Pitt called The Devil's Own an "irresponsible bit of filmmaking" in Newsweek?
A: First of all, I recognized the thoughts. They could have been my own. There was a point when everybody thought we should bag this stuff if it wasn't going to work. But we kept pushing and then it started to work. So I couldn't argue with what he said. I think it was simply a matter of forgetting that the person he was talking to was being paid to write this shit down. I wasn't terribly upset by it.
Q: Do you think Pitt will come as far as you have over the years?
A: He's already come as far--and further. I've been around for a long time, but I have never been as singularly popular as he is.
Q: Were they great leaps in characters for you--playing a cop in Devil's and the president in Air Force?
A: In The Devil's Own I played a New York City uniformed police sergeant, which I can easily imagine being. Imagining myself as the president is less easy because I couldn't imagine an ambition to be the president. But the job is always the same. And the cop and the president both share the same head, which is my head.
Q: Did you spend time riding around with New York cops?
A: Yeah. They let me hang with them and do what they did. It's a very tough job. Impossible job. I felt bad for them and bad for the people they were dealing with on the streets.
Q: What about the physical toll some of your movies take on you?
A: They're frequently accidents, not the result of trying to do something outrageous. I tore a rotator cuff in my shoulder on Air Force One so I'm waiting for that to heal. I hurt my shoulder over the years a number of times--you have a side you favor when you have to hit the ground and I generally land on my right shoulder. On The Fugitive I tore my ACL [a knee ligament] because I was running towards the camera. When we rehearsed it there had been a hole next to the camera I could run through; when we shot it somebody set a century stand in that hole and I put all my weight on my right leg to cut left to avoid it. I've given up skiing when I have a picture in the spring because I don't have an ACL in my left knee. That was run over by the flying wing in one of the Indiana Jones movies.
Q: Do you ever get nervous when you're acting?
A: Not really anymore. There's one thing that makes me nervous in life and that's public speaking. Though it might seem to have some similarity to what I do, it's completely different. Even when I act it, it makes me nervous.
Q: Did you expect the rerelease of the Star Wars trilogy to do the kind of business it did?
A: It's just amazing that a 20-year-old movie can be released this way. I'm delighted it's still of interest. And that's about as much as I think about it.
Q: Did you make any more money?
A: There probably will be some small amount of money, but I was not in a position to negotiate for a back-end when I did Star Wars. I was paid $1,000 a week and $1,000 a week for expenses.
Q: Has George Lucas sent you any presents since the rerelease?
A: He did give Alec Guinness, Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher and myself a small percentage of the net. He didn't have to do that. He did the same thing on American Grafitti--I got a tenth of a point on that.
Q: Did you know that Al Pacino turned down the Han Solo role in Star Wars?
A: Really? I think a lot of people were up for it, but frankly I don't think anybody was offered the part. My understanding was that George had two different groups of three that he had narrowed it down to. The only one I know he'd seriously entertained playing Han Solo was Chris Walken.
Q: It's hard to imagine your being any more famous with the Star Wars rerelease than you already were. Is it true that you and Sydney Pollack tried to drive away from your fans after seeing The English Patient, but they followed you for miles until you stopped and signed autographs?
A: They were driving dangerously, so I decided if I signed autographs they wouldn't do that.
Q: Do you understand such behavior?
A: No. I don't understand it.
Q: Is it ever scary?
A: It's not been scary ... yet.
Q: Have you ever worried about stalkers?
A: No. I've had a number of people over the years who have not appeared to be totally in possession of all of their marbles, but I've never had any real trouble.
Q: What was it like when you went to Harvard to receive the Hasty Pudding Man of the Year award?
A: Silly. I was flattered to be chosen. I guess I dodged it a couple of years in a row and then, having been asked once more, I decided to do it. It's not the kind of thing I usually do.
Q: Would you do it again?
A: No.
Q: Did you really don a wig of rubber snakes and put on a red feathered, tasseled bra?
A: That's correctly reported.
Q: Were you paraded around Harvard Square?
A: No, that's the Woman of the Year who's led through the streets. I just had to appear onstage briefly dressed up in that rubber wig and sit and watch the Hasty Pudding show. Then I was led backstage for a press conference, the basis on which I can say I would never do this again.
Q: Given today's advances in technology, do you think one day some film editor might use the image of you as Indiana Jones to, say, sell vacuum cleaners?
A: I'll be long gone and will have spent the money.
Q: A lot of people probably don't know that you've done commercials in Japan.
A: I don't do it anymore. It was contractually understood that they were only for Japan. They were relatively fun to do. I did them for the Honda motor company, Kirin beer and a cellular phone company.
Q: Do people think of you more as a movie star than an actor?
A: Yeah. It's too fine a point to belabor, but what I do is act.
Q: Do you view any movies as art?
A: I think you can make a case for film writing being, under some circumstances, an artistic endeavor.
Q: You live with a screenwriter. What is your respect for that process?
A: I have the utmost respect for activities where people discipline themselves, work so much alone at the point of genesis and then begin to work with others, [which is] something else. It's very tough work.
Q: How rare is it to see a first draft of a script really work?
A: Very rare. Very. Things change when you begin making something.
Q: How many good scripts do you read?
A: I've read any number of scripts which are good in and of themselves, which doesn't mean that they are perfect for the job at hand. There's no limit for better.
Q: Is it harder to make a good movie than to write a good book?
A: Yeah.
Q: You were a voracious reader up to the age of 12--what books did you most enjoy?
A: Biography and history.
Q: And why did you stop reading as much after that?
A: Because I began to have assigned reading.
Q: Are there any novels you've liked recently?
A: I haven't read a novel in at least a year. I read practical nonfiction or scripts. My wife's a voracious reader.
Q: Did your involvement with the Dalai Lama happen because your wife wrote the script Kundun, which Scorsese is directing?
A: Yes, that was totally based on her. It's quite simple: I regret the situation of Tibet and see it as a failure to preserve simple human rights. I think the Dalai Lama is a remarkable person. I've come to respect and admire him.
Q: Is there a saintly aura around him?
A: I think he is a religious person. I think he's the real deal.
Q: You were declared a persona non grata by the agency that handles visas for Chinese-occupied Tibet. Was this because you spoke out before a Senate subcommittee on behalf of the Tibetan people?
A: Apparently. I'm sure I did a number of things to annoy the Chinese. I was nervous about public speaking, but it was a small panel. They sought our input. The ambition at the time was to prevent the Chinese from gaining Most Favored Nation status without redressing some of the problems they've created in Tibet.
Q: A year ago at Christmas you helped feed 4,000 homeless at the L.A. Mission. How did that affect you?
A: Being there didn't affect me one way or another, but the problem is something I think about and something I try to do some small part in alleviating through projects other than the L.A. Mission.
Q: You've said you don't quite understand happiness. With all you've got, what's to understand?
A: I don't understand happiness as an ambition. As a pure ambition it's not really worthy. I understand it as a by-product. My work is still an awful lot of fun for me. I love going to work. When it's coming easy or when it's going hard, I still love the job. I love the problem-solving.
Q: You've said that you have a degree of irritation with people who are undisciplined. In what ways?
A: People who don't do what they say they're going to do. Don't work hard at what they're doing. Give up easily. Don't prepare themselves.
Q: Do you have a temper?
A: It's way under control. I haven't lost my temper in months. I rarely lose my temper. I used to yell but I got over that.
Q: Did either of your parents yell?
A: Not really.
Q: Was it tough growing up with the name Harrison?
A: I was Harry until I went away to college and had the opportunity to reinvent myself. To at least that degree.
Q: Who do you know better, your mother or your father?
A: My mother, I suppose. A nice lady. They live in Laguna.
Q: And they've got a great-grandson. What's it like being a grandfather?
A: Great. I've got one grandson, four years old. He's terrific. And what's great is to see my kids with him. My grandson has a six-year-old aunt and a ten-year-old uncle.
Q: Let's see how well you do with offbeat questions.
A: I rarely give offbeat answers, but go ahead.
Q: If you could repeat one alcohol or drug experience you've had, what comes to mind?
A: [Laughs] I guess I wouldn't have gone to Hogs & Heifers [the bar in Manhattan's meat-packing district] that afternoon [during the filming of The Devil's Own]. Just went out one afternoon with a couple of guys, had a few beers and lingered too long. Guess I had too much fun. A lot of untrue stuff ended up in the tabloids. I'm usually pretty good, I don't drink too much, and when I do I usually stay out of trouble and out of sight.
Q: Should marijuana be legalized?
A: Probably.
Q: What's the saddest thing that's ever happened to you?
A: I suppose that would be the time around the events of the dissolution of my first marriage. No further details.
Q: What's the single most valuable thing you've ever learned?
A: Not to give up.
Q: When did you learn that?
A: Over the 15-year period it took me to begin to have a career in this business.
Q: If you could have survived any historic disaster?
A: It's either the Donner Party or the Titanic.
Q: What one news story or event would you like to have reported?
A: Ellsberg. The Pentagon Papers. Big story.
Q: What one event in history would you like to have personally witnessed?
A: The Gettysburg Address.
Q: Is that also a period of history in which you would have liked to have lived?
A: No. That was a terrible time in America. I think I would have liked to live around the turn of this century when things were really changing. Things are still changing very rapidly, but that would have been a very interesting time.
Q: What about if you had to have fought in any war in history?
A: World War II.
Q: If you could have been a jury member in any court case, what trial would you choose?
A: The court martial of Lt. Calley.
Q: For those who don't remember, Calley was tried for wiping out a village of mostly women and children during the Vietnam war. How did you react to that at the time? Was it something you could understand at all--a young soldier freaked out and firing at innocent people?
A: I couldn't comprehend it. I could never imagine it happening to me. What I could imagine was being under his command, seeing it happen and not being strong enough to stop it.
Q: How did you beat the draft during that time?
A: I was a conscientious objector.
Q: Were you actually classified as that?
A: No. I confused them so badly that they never took action on my petition. My conscientious objection wasn't based on a history of religious affiliation, which made it difficult at that time. I went back to my philosophy training from college. I remembered Paul Tillich's phrase, If you have trouble with the word God, take whatever is central or most meaningful to your life and call that God. I always had trouble with the word or notion of God in a stand-up form. So I developed that thesis and took the biblical injunction to love thy neighbor as thyself as the central and most meaningful thing in my life. I combined it all and typed for days and sent it off and never heard a word. Never got called in. It lingered for about two and a half years and then my first wife became pregnant and I got an exemption based on that. The lawyer that I had retained to pursue my case, one J.B. Teats, told me that I owed him $5,000 as a result of my wife becoming pregnant. He showed me the piece of paper I'd signed, the simple form of a retainer, which stipulated that any more desirable draft status that was achieved during this period of time would be deemed to be the result of his interference. And he was not amused by the conjecture of the child's paternity. So for about two years he dunned me for that $5,000. I finally paid him.
Q: OK, back to the offbeat. If you could reverse one sports call...
A: Don't know anything about sports. I don't have the sports gene in me. I just never cared about it.
Q: If you could have invented anything from history, what would you pick?
A: The airplane.
Q: If you could uninvent one thing?
A: Gunpowder.
Q: If you could be the editor of any magazine, which one would it be?
A: Flying.
Q: How long have you been flying?
A: About two years. It's something I always wanted to do and never had a block of time to do it in. I got my license last September.
Q: How is your vision?
A: I wear glasses when I fly.
Q: How was it when you first soloed?
A: Great. I had a few bad landings at first because I was flying a Cessna 206, which is a bit more of a handful than people normally fly during training. One bad landing I don't think I'll ever forget. I'm pretty well aware of my limitations.
Q: How far have you flown?
A: I've flown across the country four or five times. Always with somebody.
Q: Think crossing the ocean would be different for you?
A: It would be different for my wife. Right now I'm flying single-engine planes. I think I'll wait until I'm flying a twin to cross the ocean.
Q: What's your most treasured possession outside of your children?
A: I don't really possess my children. I guess that would be my new airplane. Seats six, single engine. But if I get my motorcycle next week it might be a toss-up.
Q: Do you collect anything?
A: Apparently I collect airplanes. And motorcycles.
Q: Do you buy art?
A: Yes. Until the walls are filled. I'm not a "collector" collector. I continue to look and every once in a while I'll buy something.
Q: What painting would you want over your fireplace?
A: I'm pretty happy with what's there now.
Q: What is there now?
A: A Vuillard.
Q: How about if you could live inside of one painting?
A: There are paintings that intrigue me about the world they describe, but I wouldn't necessarily want to live there. I don't think I'd like to live in Hopper's world, but I'm intrigued by his understanding of space and light and human emotions.
Q: What about Georges Seurat's A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grand Jatte, which was turned into the play Sunday in the Park with George?
A: I'm not terribly fond of that picture, and I'm not terribly fond of that world.
Q: And you wouldn't want to speak French?
A: Not to have to.
Q: If you could play one musical instrument, which would you choose?
A: The piano. Also the cello--it's an instrument that I really love the sound of.
Q: Is there any piece of music you would like to have composed?
A: No. I would like to have been Hoagy Carmichael. I like the freedom of his mind. "Baltimore Oriole"--you know the words to that song?
Q: Hum a few bars.
A: I won't put you through that. But these were intensely original descriptions of love-like moments couched in really bizarre word pictures. I'm not too good at this.
Q: You're doing fine. If you were to be successful with another profession ...?
A: Architecture.
Q: You know about carpentry and building. Tell me, why does the hot water in my upstairs bathtub turn cold after a few minutes, when it doesn't happen in the downstairs tub?
A: I don't know, man, might be your karma.
Q: But it also happens when my wife goes to take a bath.
A: You might be your wife's karma.
Q: If you had to choose the single biggest mistake you've made, what would it be?
A: Is this still for Movieline? [Laughs] Or somehow did I get into the long-form Playboy interview that I've been running away from all my life? I don't object, but I'll tell you very quickly when I don't have an answer so we can get on with this. Single biggest mistake? Now I have to run through my life and try and find where I made my biggest mistake. [Thinks] Don't know.
Q: You probably know but don't want to say.
A: No. I don't know. I would be led to know the mistake by a regret that I carry around with me. I have no regrets. I could give you something general, like I regret that I wasn't as good a father to my older sons when they were growing up. There you go. Happy?
Q: If you could have any writer in history write your biography, who would you choose?
A: I don't want anybody writing my biography.
Q: Assume somebody might. If you could choose the writer...
A: [Thinks a long time]
Q: How many writers have you mentally crossed out already?
A: None. I haven't crossed anybody out, I just haven't settled on anybody.
Q: There's a pretty wide range to choose from--you could go with a master of the internal like Dostoyevsky, or one of the external like James Michener.
A: If it's between Dostoyevsky and Michener, then let me think of someone practical. That won't hurt as much and would entertain people. Elmore Leonard.
Q: If Leonard weren't available, think you might write your own memoirs?
A: No. Maybe after I'm dead.
Q: That would be a neat trick.
A: It would be a lot easier to do it after I was dead.
Q: What concerns would you publicly support?
A: I do it all the time and I always regret it. I just came back from Brazil, where I was in board meetings with a group that I work with called Conservation International. At their urging I said I would be interviewed by Brazilian television, and once again I saw a series of old movie clips interspersed with very short and unexplored comments about conservation. I didn't feel that it was appropriate for me to take the time on that occasion. I never make myself available to the press unless I've got something to sell. I don't believe that a complex issue should be decided on the basis of what celebrity is endorsing it. Yes, you can help bring attention to issues, but the quality of the argument often suffers.
Q: Have you ever been near death in real life?
A: I've had a couple of car wrecks, that's about it.
Q: Have you ever been robbed?
A: I've had houses robbed, but I never had anybody stick a gun in my gut and ask me for my wallet. Never used to have a lock on our door when we lived up here [in the Hollywood Hills]. One day a lady who lived across the street came screaming in. She was hysterical. I was unable to get any information about what her problem was until either her boyfriend or her husband burst in the door behind her. And in a moment of nonthinking I threw him out of the house, never recognizing until I got him outside and got some distance between us that he had a knife in his hand. But I was on him so quick, screaming so loud, that I undid him. It's a moment I think of.
Q: Had you seen his knife do you think you would have reacted the same way?
A: No. I would have tried to reason with him.
Q: If you could choose the way you would die, what would you choose?
A: An instantaneous brain aneurysm. Drop like a rock.
Q: Assuming there is a God and you could ask God one question, what would it be?
A: Is there anything we can do, or is it all in Your hands?
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Lawrence Grobel interviewed Kim Basinger for the April issue of Movieline.