For her starring role in Garry Marshall's upcoming film version of Anne Rice's S&M love story Exit to Eden, Dana Delany had to learn the tricks of the dominatrix trade. Here she reveals how she learned to handle a whip and what it's like filming in the nude, and she explains what the hell a "jade stalk" is.
"The leather went round my left wrist first, buckled very tight, and then around the right...she went to the wall, and pressed a button that silently made the leather chain above me retract into the ceiling. . . . She picked up something from the dresser. It looked at first glance like a pair of flesh-covered, leather-clad horns. . ."
I'm rereading Anne Rice's S&M love story Exit to Eden in a corner booth at Chaya restaurant in Venice. I don't usually read erotic fiction in public places, but since my lunch date, Dana Delany, is playing the dominatrix in Garry Marshall's film version of the novel, I figured a little boning up might be in order. I met Delany over two years ago when I first interviewed her for Movieline. Best known then for her Emmy-winning work on "China Beach," Delany was just making the transition to the big screen and has since appeared in such films as HouseSitter, Light Sleeper and Tombstone. I'll never forget the tour she gave me of her Santa Monica home, pointing out features like the bidet ("I keep my laundry in it") and "the breast floor," a section of the house named in honor of the numerous pieces of hooter-friendly art on the walls. I'm startled out of this reverie when Delany says, as she sits down to join me, "I see you have the book."
DENNIS HENSLEY: Had you read Exit to Eden before you got the part?
DANA DELANY: I read the script, got the job, then I read the book. I loved it. The two best scenes are Sports Day, which we have in the movie, and . . .
Q: I love that scene. It's like Disneyland for swingers.
A: Yes. We have a human carousel with people riding on slaves. And a roller-blading race, because Paul [Mercurio] is really good at that, and also a "Hit the Butt" game, where there are these sticky balls you throw at the slaves' butts.
Q: How do they stick?
A: Velcro on the ass.
Q: They didn't just pick the slaves with the hairiest asses?
A: No, because there were actually women bending over, too.
Q: And what's the other great scene?
A: The other great scene was where my character, Lisa, dominates Elliot, Paul Mercurio's character--he's tied up and she's in charge.
Q: When I read that scene in the book, I had this idea for the film's poster: a photo of you, Paul, and a double-headed dildo, with this copy line: "Sometimes two heads are better than one."
A: [Laughing] I'll mention that to Garry Marshall. That scene is in the movie and it's very hot, but it does not have a double-headed dildo in it. We use something else. I don't want to give it away. We also have the honey scene in New Orleans, but we use butter instead of honey.
Q: You drip it on Paul?
A: He does it on me, with croissants. I put in a line where I said, "Have you seen Last Tango in Paris?"
Q: Then does he lick it off?
A: Uh-huh.
Q: The book is extremely explicit and in some places very homoerotic. Has that been toned down?
A: Yeah, it's very much a heterosexual island. It's too bad, because Anne Rice has a great homosexual following, but I think that Garry is aiming for a Middle-American audience. There are two things I think about this: In movies, I think, people want someone to have only one lover--they want the hero and the heroine. They get confused otherwise, even though that's reality. The other thing is--well, Dennis, I don't know if you read Penthouse Letters . . .
Q: Love 'em.
A: I do too. I think the fantasies of Middle America have changed over the years. It used to be that the big taboo fantasy was a man with two women, but lately it's been a man being dominated by a woman, or a man having a homosexual affair and then finding he likes it. I think Middle America has changed in terms of fantasies--I mean that's who reads Penthouse Letters, right?
Q: Other than us.
A: So I tried to put a little subtext into the movie with my slave, Diana, but I think it got cut.
Q: What attracted you to the project?
A: It was a lead. That's what I wanted to do next. Also, I like taking chances.
Q: Do you feel it's an enormous risk to your career?
A: No. A lot of people took the script at face value and thought, "Oh my God, I can't do this." They didn't take into account that Garry Marshall was going to be directing it. I haven't seen the movie, but the two things he said to me were, "Remember, I'm the man who brought you 'Happy Days,'" and, "I want you to look really beautiful." I think it will finally make people realize that I'm not the girl next door. I mean, who wants to be 40 and be the girl next door? I'd rather be the other woman at 40.
Q: It's been described as both a sex-comedy and an erotic-thriller. What do you think it is?
A: It's kind of a comic-fantasy. It's kind of like Shakespeare, if I may be so bold. It's like one of his comedies where you have the two lovers, the two clowns and the two thieves.
Q: How much leather do we see on the two clowns, Rosie O'Donnell and Dan Aykroyd?
A: Do you want to, or not?
Q: I want to, I want to.
A: You'll see Rosie in leather and she looks damn good. I think there's a scene where Dan tries it and they realize it's not going to work so he decides not to wear leather.
Q: Did you work out before filming began?
A: I went right into it from Tombstone, so I had no time to do anything. I decided it's probably a good thing to be a little voluptuous for this movie because I think that's sexier than seeing a hard body. I look at actors who have these hard bodies and you know that they spent six hours a day at the gym, and I immediately think of; I don't think of the character, Also, my own dominatrix consultant has a very womanly body.
Q: You had your own dominatrix consultant? What was that like?
A: I went to a dinner party at her house and I met a lot of people who are into the S & M scene. We had a round-table discussion, with a slave who served us.
Q: Naked?
A: No, Dennis, dressed. Then afterward we went to her bedroom and a couple of the men stripped down to their underwear and demonstrated whipping to me. They showed me the techniques. It's all in the wrist. She save me a whip to take home so that I could practice.
Q: Do you know where that whip's been?
A: No. She did call me up and ask for it back, though. She needed it.
Q: Right. Like she couldn't go out and get another whip.
A: They're very specific about their equipment and they all know who the best people are to buy from. They make beautiful whips--red and blue and green. The point being, it doesn't have to be black leather.
Q: I learn something new every day.
A: The thing I love about it is that these people are very healthy, normal people. They all like each other. There are extremes of S&M, but most of them are not extremists. They're society they are.
Q: You mean there could be S&M dabblers right here in this restaurant?
A: You can tell.
Q: What are the telltale signs?
A: Spiked stiletto heels on women. That's a big thing. Tight, short skirts. Piercing is a good sign. Like one of the men that I met had his nipple pierced, his scrotum pierced, I mean, a lot of piercings. Do you know that it's called a Prince Albert?
Q: Having your scrotum pierced is called that?
A: Yeah, because they say that Prince Albert had it.
Q: Doesn't a Prince Albert make the equipment considerably less functional?
A: I think it becomes like a French tickler. It serves a purpose.
Q: So, how many nude scenes did you have?
A: The thing about being a dominatrix is, rarely are they naked because then they lose their power. The slave has to be naked so they feel exposed. So the one naked scene that I have was all about me letting go.
Q: Were you ever blindfolded, handcuffed, shackled? In the movie, I mean.
A: There's a wonderful scene when I go to this big mansion. I felt like I was in The Story of O. I'm ushered in and told to wait in the living room. And I'm just sitting there blindfolded, naked, but I don't think you see anything, hopefully. I hated not being able to know who was looking at me. I don't know how people find that sexy. When I'm working, I'm so aware of who's on a set. I can spot an interloper in a minute. One needs to feel that sense of safety and to not have that was very disconcerting. It felt a little bit like I was doing a soft-core, not in the sexual sense, but more in that kind of '70s movie way where everything was soft and beautiful.
Q: If I were ever going to rent a porno, I'd try to get a '70s one.
A: If you were, which you might someday. I was a big fan of Sylvia Kristel. Remember Harry Reams? He was big in New York when I was living there, had a big, thick mustache, and looked like Geraldo Rivera. I wonder how many of those people died of AIDS.
Q: Speaking of which, how is safe sex handled in Exit to Eden?
A: It's handled in the sense that S&M is not really about sex. With most dominatrices, it's all prearranged that they don't have sex with their submissives. If it is part of the deal, they always use a condom. The three S&M buzz words are "safe," "sane" and "consensual."
Q: How do you think this movie is going to go over in the uptight, PC '90s?
A: I hope it is controversial, but actually, I think it's a very '90s movie. You know, a lot of women have gotten to be very tough, and they don't let themselves be victims anymore, which is good. But a lot of women I know have gone too far in that direction. They don't let anybody in. I think the point of the movie is that it's fine to be in control, but you have to let down your guard once in a while. I think it's great that it's about a woman. How many movies do you see where it's about a woman's sexuality? Rarely.
Q: What do you think attracted Garry Marshall to the material?
A: He's a very sexy man. He has a hell of a curiosity about these matters, and I think he wanted to see if it could be made mainstream. People who know him are not surprised by his doing this movie.
Q: Did Anne Rice say anything about your being cast as Lisa?
A: I don't even know if she knew who I was. I met her in New Orleans and she didn't say anything to me. But when she met Paul, she said, "Oh, what a hunk."
Q: Is Exit to Eden an equal-opportunity film as far as nudity is concerned?
A: No frontal nudity on Paul, no. I mean, I saw it, but you won't see it in the movie.
Q: Was he ever worried about getting aroused during your love scenes?
A: I think he was nervous that he would, and I told him I'd be insulted if he didn't. A lot of actors are really uncomfortable with their bodies and when you get to sex scenes, they try too hard because they want to be macho. Because Paul's a dancer, he's not concerned about nudity and that stuff.
Q: When I was working as a dancer, everyone changed in front of everyone and nobody cared.
A: I'm like that because of theater. I did Equus in the nude. That was my first taste of how liberating it could be. The town, however, was shocked. I was like the whore of Augusta, Michigan.
Q: Did you ever have to go in and loop dialogue because the leather made too much noise?
A: That wasn't a problem because in my one great leather outfit, there was nothing on my legs. One scene I did have to loop was a bubble bath scene because the bubbles kept popping and were too noisy.
Q: What were they made of, latex?
A: Mr. Bubble's. It is the worst shit. It's like putting borax on your body.
Q: Speaking of Mr. Bubble's, can we expect any product placement in Exit to Eden? Acme whips? Hartz dog collars?
A: Paul is Mr. Advertisement in Australia. He sells Cooper's beer and Bond's underwear and clothes, so he wore Bond's and drank Cooper's in the movie.
Q: Did the makeup people have to put welts on everyone?
A: No, but I left a few marks on Paul. He was very nice about it, I have to say.
Q: What was the atmosphere like on the set? Was there sex in the air?
A: Because the movie's so sexual, the crew was so jaded after a couple of days of bare tits, nobody even looked anymore. They got sick of it.
Q: What are your costumes like?
A: Great, lots of cleavage, high thong-type things, and heels. It's the first time I wanted my wardrobe. I took all of them. I've got Halloween costumes for years to come. I have a wonderful little lace bell-bottom number that I wore to the wrap party.
Q: What was the wrap party like?
A: For all of Garry's movies he does a gag reel, which is almost as important to him as the movie. The through line of the gag reel was, "Is that the girl from 'China Beach'?"
Q: You've said that playing McMurphy on "China Beach" made you a more compassionate person. How has playing Lisa in Exit to Eden changed you?
A: A couple of things happened. One, there's something very liberating about walking around half undressed and not really caring what other people think. I came to feel very attractive no matter what my body looked like. And two, I found that the more we got into the kinkiness of the sex, the less kinky I was in my own life. It made me really appreciate straightforward, vanilla love. There's something very refreshing about that. I mean, I observed a couple of S&M scenes, and I don't judge it, but it does make me sad that this is what they need to get off. I guess that's what I learned. It's okay once in a while, but I wouldn't want a steady diet of it.
Q: What's the language like in the film?
A: It's not hard-core. We use a lot of euphemisms, actually.
Q: "Love cave"? "Man root"?
A: "Member." And I always liked "jade stalk." The Taoists use that for the male member.
Q: I like talking dirty better in theory than in practice.
A: You never, like, in the heat of the moment. . .?
Q: I don't remember.
A: You've got to get out more. Although it is good to store up your chai for the right person.
Q: My chee?
A: Your sexual energy, your chai.
Q: Do you use fancy words like that during sex?
A: I love to talk during sex, but no, I use the basic dirty words, the hard-core ones. I've been told to shut up before.
Q: Have you ever had phone sex?
A: I'm a big believer in phone sex with my boyfriend. I've been on for about an hour. The anticipation is great. And phone sex is safe, too. I should do ads for AT&T.
Q: One of the chapters in Exit to Eden is called "Love at First Sight." Do you believe in that?
A: I believe in infatuation at first sight, which I think comes from some neurotic button that the other person pushes in you. I have a friend who thinks that the only thing that keeps couples together is if their neuroses match. He says that your neuroses bring you together and your neuroses break you apart, and it's true.
Q: What are your neuroses?
A: I have this fear of abandonment, that most people have, so I don't let anybody in. I think that's very common in modern society.
Q: Your boyfriend, so I've read, is a lobbyist named Darius Anderson. Does it bother you that the press feels a need to report on your love life?
A: I don't take it seriously, but I do think it's an added pressure that other relationships don't have. [But] he was upset [about being called that] because he's not a lobbyist. Lobbyists are like the scum of the earth. He works for a man who owns grocery stores, as his government relations person. Because he's eight years younger than me, I played this whole joke on him about how I was at Woodstock. I said, "You don't know what it was like, man. It was like freedom and it rained and we all got naked and went swimming in the pond and rolled around in the mud."
Q: How did you break the news to him?
A: I just said, "You know, Woodstock? I was kidding." He was so pissed off, but he likes a good gag.
Q: How do the people close to you feel about you playing a dominatrix?
A: Darius totally supports me in anything I do, but it makes him nervous. My family has learned to accept what I do. They know if they say anything negative [laughing], I'll kill them.
Q: You were raised Catholic. How has that affected you as an adult?
A: I feel guilty very easily. I think, if anything, my exhibitionist side is a reaction to Catholicism.
Q: Did you go to confession?
A: Yeah, but I stopped once I had things to confess.
Q: Which was when?
A: When my parents got divorced. I was 19.
Q: Did your parents splitting sour you on the idea of getting married?
A: Sometimes I don't quite understand the point of marriage. We all live so much longer now that the idea of being with someone for that long is sort of antiquated. We go through phases in our lives and it's hard for one person to match all those phases. That's not to say I wouldn't want to be married.
Q: You've been quoted as saying, "If you put Willem [Dafoe], Liam Neeson and Jimmy Woods in a room together, there wouldn't be room for anyone else." You were, I believe, referring to the size of their "jade stalks." Did that quote come back to haunt you?
A: Yes. I thought it was funny, but I got a lot of shit for that. People think that I had sex with all those men, which I haven't. It was purely conjecture, meant as a compliment. But, you know, Jimmy Woods told me he got more dates from that.
Q: Do people ever confuse you with Janine Turner? It seems like you left TV and she grew back in your place.
A: It's true. Someone told me, "I loved you in Cliffhanger." The funny thing is that I was supposed to do Cliffhanger before Janine. The deal just didn't work out. I'd love to work with Stallone someday.
Q: I heard that, after your relationship with "China Beach" producer John Sacret Young ended, you sampled skydiving. What is it like to jump out of an airplane?
A: It was such an adrenaline rush, but it seemed unnatural. I'd rather get high internally, doing yoga or meditating, than have to do it in an external way like jumping out of a plane. People who do it are addicted to that rush. It's like a drug.
Q: I read that you're a member of the Mile High Club.
A: I am. It was with a friend of mine who was piloting a six-seater plane. It was just him and me.
Q: That must be why autopilot was invented. Were you scared?
A: No, I never felt like my life was in danger. He knew what he was doing. It was pretty fast.
Q: What's your favorite bedroom music?
A: Music's not like a requirement of mine, but I like funk. I've had Lenny Kravitz on, and it was great. Same goes for Prince. I remember my first time was to the Beach Boys' "Disney Girls." I love that song. It still makes me cry. My innocence is in that song.
Q: Was your first time disappointing?
A: It was wonderful. I had orchestrated the whole thing. My parents were on vacation. I had just turned 16, because my boyfriend insisted that I be 16. He made me wait. I skipped school and I did it in my own bed.
Q: Did you ever get the facts-of-life talk?
A: In third grade I got it, because I'd heard all these stories at camp and I came home horrified. I asked my mother and she set me straight.
Q: Were the stories inaccurate?
A: No, they were true! That's what was scary.
Q: My facts-of-life talk consisted of me asking my father what prostitution was during a commercial break while watching "Charlie's Angels."
A: That's fitting. I actually give my mother full credit for my healthy attitude about sex.
Q: Here's a hypothetical sex question: You've just experienced an incredible evening of lovemaking. You wake up, roll over--what clothes do you see on the floor?
A: There's something about white Jockeys that's so male and gross that I like. There's something dirty-sexy about them. And if they have stains on them, that's better. They're just such boy things. To me the coolest thing about having a boyfriend is that you can just stare at his naked body and not have to look away out of politeness. I find the male form so fascinating.
Q: What's your favorite male body part?
A: I have a few. I like that kind of dent right here [indicating pelvic bone], that V. And I love butts. There's nothing better than a good butt.
Q: What's the one thing that you still do, even though you can afford not to?
A: I won't give up Victoria's Secret. I still order from the catalog.
Q: What game show would you want to be on?
A: "Celebrity Studs." I think it should be two normal guys picking from three celebrities.
Q: This girl I know went on "Studs," put out for the guy, and won.
A: You don't do that on the first date. They'll never call you again.
Q: Which date is the right one to have sex?
A: The older I get, the longer I wait. There's nothing that beats romance: going out to dinner, dancing, a bottle of wine. It's taken me a while to learn that, but I finally got it.
Q: What's the downside of fame?
A: To me, the only downside is when people write mean things about you and you have no recourse.
Q: You mean like when Movieline listed your turn in Tombstone as one of "The 100 Dumbest Things Hollywood's Done Lately"? I had nothing to do with that, Dana. I was out of the country, I swear.
A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Dennis. Sure. I opened up that issue and I saw Kurt [Russell]'s picture and the entry about his wearing too much eyeliner. I thought, "That's pretty funny." Then, when I got to the entry that read "Dana Delany in Tombstone," I was in shock. I thought, "What does that mean? That I was wasted in Tombstone] I might agree with that." I was trying to put a good spin on it. I mean, you try your best. I know what I'm like in that movie, and I wouldn't say it's my favorite work. In fact, I'd probably say it's my least favorite work. It's a perfect example of me not trusting my instincts. But it was a good lesson for me.
Q: Tombstone was a hit, though.
A: Surprising hit. People I know saw it five times and people I know loved me in it. I just know how I'd have played it differently if I had it to do all over again.
Q: Your grandfather invented the Delany toilet-flush valve. Isn't it strange to always see your name on people's toilets?
A: They were always good-luck charms for me. The ABC building in New York had Delany flush valves, and I'd go in and flush one for good luck before I went into an audition. So, Dennis, what did I say today that I'll regret later?
Q: Aside from "jade stalk," I can't think of a thing. Where are you off to?
A: I have to go learn my lines for an audition.
Q: What's it for?
A: I don't want to say. I have a feeling it's not going to happen.
Q: Well, I'll flush a toilet for you.
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Dennis Hensley interviewed Suzy Amis for the May Movieline.